Welcome home, fellow Gator.

The Gator Nation's oldest and most active insider community
Join today!

War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

    15,662
    1,155
    2,088
    Jan 5, 2022
    If Ukraine really wanted to fight for its freedom it would begin by saying no to the US.
     
  2. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

    8,504
    1,047
    328
    Sep 11, 2022
    Lol, is that a threat?

    Here’s an update: Ukraine doesn’t have the air support or artillery support to engage Russia’s defensive line, which is why this counteroffensive has gone no where. Ukraine has big exposure because they lack the manpower to sustain more heavy casualties. If Ukraine pushes the matter, they risk heavy losses which will leave them exposed to Russian counterattacks that will no doubt result in more territorial gains for the red army.

    In other words, there is a great risk here for Ukraine pressing forward with a counteroffensive in that it can very easily turn into a net loss and the more territory Russia gains, the more leverage they have at the table. This is why you’re beginning to hear reports of U.S. officials meeting with Russian counterparts secretly to discuss a resolution. Even Biden himself is opposing Ukraine joining NATO until after this over.

    Understand that Ukraine cannot win a war of attrition against Russia. They lack the manpower and artillery to grind it out. It may seem like a tantalizing fantasy, but Russia simply has too large of an army for Ukraine to succeed in a war of attrition. The more losses Ukraine sustains, the higher susceptibility to Russian counter gains.
     
  3. OklahomaGator

    OklahomaGator Jedi Administrator Moderator VIP Member

    122,426
    163,553
    116,973
    Apr 3, 2007
    I think most people oppose Ukraine joining NATO until this is over. Otherwise it instantly puts NATO at war with Russia.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  4. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

    15,662
    1,155
    2,088
    Jan 5, 2022
    NATO is at war with Russia.
     
  5. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

    30,838
    11,903
    3,693
    Aug 26, 2008
    russian commander of sub used to launch kalibur missiles into Ukranian cities was killed while on shore.

    I guess Putin isn't the only side with a hit squad

    fair target or no?

    Notorious Russian Sub Commander Assassinated on His Morning Jog (msn.com)

    ARussian submarine commander blamed for atrocities in Ukraine was gunned down on his morning jog in Krasnodar—and his killer likely knew just where to find him thanks to his habit of posting his running routes on a popular exercise app.

    Stanislav Rzhitsky, a commander of a submarine in Russia’s Black Sea Fleet and the deputy head of mobilization efforts in Krasnodar, was shot four times in the back and chest in broad daylight on Monday morning, according to local media reports. The Investigative Committee has opened a murder investigation into the brazen hit.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
  6. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

    30,838
    11,903
    3,693
    Aug 26, 2008
    long range, precision strikes destroying command and control locations and officer squads

    Hotel housing Russian military commanders destroyed in Berdiansk (msn.com)

    The Berdiansk City Military Administration reported about a strike on the Duna hotel, where the military command of the occupiers was lodged.

    Reportedly, the building has essentially been "razed to the ground, the debris is being removed". Ambulances were sent to the site of the strike. The military administration advises to wait for the official information from the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

    Later, the military administration reported that the residents of Berdianks heard another explosion at 14:00.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  7. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

    8,504
    1,047
    328
    Sep 11, 2022
    What’s noteworthy to me is how Zelenskyy has begun scolding and insulting NATO states lately for not wanting to become more involved. I mean, if I’m applying for a job or wanting to join an exclusive community, I put my best foot forward. But I certainly wouldn’t scold my interviewers or community board members, as if I had the authority to pass moral judgment upon them. That would obviously be counterproductive, for a myriad of reasons.

    The pro-war contingent might say this situation isn’t a job interview, but at the core, it really is. Zelenskyy has to not only show Ukraine can carry its own weight, but that it can engage in non-emotional advocacy and diplomacy. Lately, he seems more like a loose cannon, a petulant child who tries to bully you into submission if he doesn’t get his way. Take this incident last week when the president of Bulgaria had to ask TV cameras to leave the conference room:

    Zelenskyy mauls Bulgarian president over his opposition to arming Ukraine
     
  8. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

    8,686
    2,014
    1,483
    May 31, 2007
    Fresno, CA
    [​IMG]
     
    • Funny Funny x 5
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  9. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

    30,838
    11,903
    3,693
    Aug 26, 2008
    russian medical care fails and another general dies from wounds inflicted during an earlier strike

    Oleg Tsokov latest Russian general to die in Ukraine (msn.com)

    Earlier, at the end of September 2022, the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine reported that Tsokov had been injured near Svatove in Luhansk Oblast as a result of a Ukrainian strike.

    "Now reportedly Tsokov’s mobilization into a grave is complete," Andriushchenko said.

    Since August 2022, Tsokov had been the commander of the 144th Motorized Rifle Division of the 20th Combined Arms Army of the Russian Federation.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. GatorJMDZ

    GatorJMDZ gatorjack VIP Member

    24,428
    2,522
    1,868
    Apr 3, 2007
    Fair target? Medal worthy!!!!!!

    Edit: This does give me some pause.:
    "But Ukrainian authorities say Rzhitsky had also made enemies in the Russian military after refusing to carry out any more missile strikes on Ukraine due to the risks to the civilian population. In a statement, the Department of Strategic Communications of the Armed Forces of Ukraine claimed Rzhitsky was “eliminated by his own for refusing to further carry out the command’s combat orders.”
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2023
    • Informative Informative x 4
  11. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

    17,516
    2,763
    1,618
    Apr 3, 2007
    I interpreted the news about the conditions for Ukraine's subsequent entry into NATO as setting forth the conditions for a potential negotiated settlement. Ukraine has consistently stated, understandably, that any negotiated resolution would require future security guarantees, so that Putin doesn't use it as an opportunity to rearm and come back again in 2 years.

    Here is a piece I found with the quick search. I'm not vouching for the overall content (although it seems generally correct at quick glance) but just to shew that future security guarantees, preferably through NATO membership, has been discussed for a long time


    Ukraine calls for postwar security guarantees – DW – 09/15/2022


    Ukraine has become less modest about its future security over the course of the war. Whereas Kyiv had hinted at the beginning of the war that the country could remain permanently neutral, NATO accession is now seen as essential.

    At the end of August, Ukraine's deputy prime minister for European integration, Olha Stefanishyna, said that only direct membership was now an option for her country.

    This insistence was probably also a reaction to the G7 meeting in Germany at the end of June. In their final declaration then, the G7 states expressed their willingness to "agree on long-term security commitments to help Ukraine in its self-defense." When DW asked Chancellor Olaf Scholz if he could be more specific about these security pledges, he replied in a widely shared video: "Yes, I could." After a grin and a brief pause, added, "That's it."


    In the unfortunate event of a stalemate and some negotiated cease-fire, this would be one of Ukraine's preconditions. Obviously I hope for Ukrainian victory negotiated cease-fire after stalemate. But I took the recent news as trying to set those conditions case they are needed.
     
  12. AndyGator

    AndyGator VIP Member

    3,559
    348
    338
    Apr 10, 2007
    I was going to ask who the assassins were.
     
  13. jhenderson251

    jhenderson251 Premium Member

    3,356
    537
    2,043
    Aug 7, 2008
    You seem a smart guy, so I'm not sure how you made this mistake, but "impressive" and "deliberate" are not synonymous.
     
  14. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

    15,662
    1,155
    2,088
    Jan 5, 2022
    Because war is good business!

    In total, 21 of the 46 signatories are associated with institutions with financial ties to the weapons industry, an industry that presumably stands to benefit from the policy recommendations laid out in a letter that had a particular focus on providing more Western weapons to Ukraine, a fact not shared with readers.

    Ukraine in NATO? War Inc. knows a great deal when it sees one - Responsible Statecraft
     
  15. exiledgator

    exiledgator Gruntled

    10,865
    1,855
    3,128
    Jan 5, 2010
    Maine
    • Informative Informative x 2
  16. sierragator

    sierragator GC Hall of Fame

    15,117
    13,181
    1,853
    Apr 8, 2007
    Lemme guess, that blowhard Medvedev is threating to vaporize the entire west in response (with no mention of what would happen to mother Russia in such an event). Medvedev seriously needs to stfu.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  17. sierragator

    sierragator GC Hall of Fame

    15,117
    13,181
    1,853
    Apr 8, 2007
    So we can rule out a balcony
     
  18. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

    17,420
    5,638
    3,313
    Apr 3, 2007
    Philadelphia

    Hint: "Ignore" key. Shuts that moron up real good.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

    15,662
    1,155
    2,088
    Jan 5, 2022
    If ‘isolationist gibberish’ means learning to get along in the world … nope, that’s probably too hard a sell for the people driving violent hegemony, chiefly the Washington think tanks funded by weapons manufacturing companies.
     
  20. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

    13,317
    1,846
    1,318
    Apr 3, 2007
    Thank you for demonstrating that you don't understand freedom. It's probably a difficult concept for you, comrade.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2