Legalized judicial racism…

How is it a thoughtful way to handle this? He proposed accountability, without any detail, for a group that is purposefully not accountable, and then proposed an alternative explanation that doesn't hold given the nature of studies. I don't see any serious attempt to "handle the issue."

 

All you want to do is argue. You clearly think having a justice system that makes decisions based on skin color a good thing. I think you are wrong.

 

Why would we desire to have a system that doesn't hold judges accountable if we are suspicious that they are not operating in the most ethical fashion? That's a disaster waiting to happen. So *if* that is the point, then that should be the target of proposed change. *If* that's not the point, then existing mechanisms for accountability should be reviewed/enhanced/modified/etc.

It's not a hypothesis, it's an anticipated counter to the possible idea that the judges themselves may not exhibit a bias. I would certainly start with the clear and obvious examples of bias base and go from there...*if* it turns out to be a regional bias situation, then that approach would need to be handled somewhat differently (kind of irrelevant to go to far down that path unless we can rule out examples of individual bias).

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

 

You clearly think that racial disparities are okay, but don't like the fact that you find them okay (or that other people might see you as somebody who does), so you aren't for seriously addressing those issues. Just proposing that we do something, without being able to even say what that something is in perpetuity.

 

Why do we have lifetime appointments for federal judges? The argument for that is usually that we want them to make unpopular decisions without regard for the politics (i.e., to make them unaccountable to the populace). This is the flip side of that argument. But if you want to argue that the Constitution got the judicial system wrong, make that argument directly.

What existing mechanism for accountability?

Okay, so how do we "handle" this? What is the form of accountability in our judicial system for this?

 

Is there a difference in the racial bias between those with lifetime appointments and those without? If so, what does that look like? If the disparity is higher, then maybe we can see that this isn't a good idea (i.e. the political escape is failing). If the disparity is lower, then maybe they don't need to be the first target of accountability concerns.

That's kind of the point. What is in place? How effective is it? Is there a way to improve on it? Do we need to build a new mechanism from scratch?

I don't expect you or I to have these answers ready, but there are people in better positions that shouldn't be afraid to ask these questions. Even Article III judges are subject to impeachment.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

 

Which federal judges don't have lifetime appointments? Are you meaning that we should compare federal judges with local judges who don't have lifetime appointments?

The disparities are slightly higher for federal courts than state courts (about 15% higher).

Almost nothing is in place.

Yeah, we can't impeach judges that took things of substantial value from people with issues in front of their courts then ruled on those issues, all while not reporting the things of value that they took. Impeachment for racial disparities in sentencing isn't going to happen.

 

I didn't read the full study, but any study is going to require data going back some amount of time. According to the Summary, the data for this study was updated and included the years 2012 through 2017, so it's not like they're relying on ancient history. I don't think there's any objective way to mandate fairness in sentencing but even judges operating in good faith may be influenced by subconscious bias. Seems worthwhile to me for them to at least be aware of the issue.

 

Then we build one from scratch. I have ideas, some maybe more useful than others...some maybe not at all (presumably, we have enough smart people in place to put together a system to where my input is not even remotely close to necessary), but there has to be a desire to have accountability. If that desire doesn't exist, then none of this really matters.

We may agree or disagree on what accountability looks like, but if we can't agree that accountability is necessary, then there's probably no point in discussing further.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

 

I do not support judges giving Black men lighter sentences than similarly-situated White men. The problem is that IF the study is correct, the reverse has been happening.

 

We already have one of those, I dont think they think its a good thing

 

And I’d agree 100 percent. Making it a law that it has to be doesn’t seem to be a good answer.

 

By certain groups do you mean thugs, drug dealers, gang members, folks like that?

 

Wont it be progress if the conservatives also get fond of saying the legal system is racist? We'll finally have a consensus on the matter.

 

You can disagree with me on what I’m about to say, and that’s ok, but just think for a second about how black athletes who get in trouble here are often characterized by what I’m guessing is a majority dominated demographic. Guys like Brandon Miller, who was not charged with a crime, and on the surface only drove to return a teammates property (hand gun). Was it a bad decision? Yes, in hindsight, knowing the end result. Was it criminal? No. Has he been in trouble before? No. But many here labeled him as a “thug” and wanted penalties imposed. They wanted Oats and Arkansas to microwave him. Pat down celebration he always did even prior to the event was retroactively judged to be sinister. These are the kinds of reasons why young black men and women get sentenced harshly… it’s systemic and subconscious.

I fully respect if you disagree, but that is the premise behind the discussion.

 

First, the prevention of what happened in 2010 from happening again in 2023 seems like a worthwhile effort. I'm not sure why constantly having to fix the errors is a better system (nor have I seen you provide evidence that it isn't happening in 2023, just 2010). Second, let me know when you find a single Republican Senator willing to impeach a judge based on racial disparities in punishment, and I will concede that as a reasonable recourse. Let me know when you find one. Short of that, your last couple sentences are actually virtue signaling, as you know it will never actually happen.

 

Special treatment under the law? Lol... only commi-fornia.