Cluster munitions always take out more civilians than they do military. You get that, right? And to your point, Ukraine has already been using them, so it’s not as though this will tip the scales of the war. It just gives them more of what they already had. The issue is that it’s the United States providing these munitions which will inevitably slaughter more Ukrainian citizens than it will Russian military.
then direct your ire at the Russians. Their decisions have forced us all to this point. Short of surrendering I’m not sure what else you expect Ukraine to do.
It’s Ukraine’s fault for surrendering to the US years ago. Zelensky was elected on his promise to make peace with Russia. How did that go ?
And why is that happening? Answer- because Russia has invaded Ukraine and won’t stop. It’s Russia’s fault this is happening.
I've said it before, I'll say it again. It is very telling that you reflexively assume we have an obligation to defend Ukraine at all costs. No matter the human cost, no matter the lack of strategical relevance it has to the people of the United States of America. This is simply not a requirement of the U.S. We have no treaties with Ukraine that demand we defend them, let alone provide them with illicit weapons. That is a choice the Biden administration is making. And we all know by now it's a choice Biden is making, so that Russia does not gain a small carve out of Ukraine's mostly ethnic Russian and largely already autonomous regions of southeastern Ukraine. Why don't we just send Ukraine a couple of tactical nukes? After all, it's Russia's fault this is happening. End the war tomorrow, if you do this, right? Or are there reasons that would be a bad idea?
I don’t think I need to answer the nuke question… but appreciate you keeping it real lmfao. I think my classical education plays into my thinking on this. Specifically the Peloponnesian war. You should read about it. Frankly I don’t have the time to explain the nuance but essentially you had two powerful philosophically opposed city states in Athens and Sparta and as one’s influence grew it consequently weakened the influence of the other. Consequently war was inevitable. Russia and the United States have been straddling that divide for 70 years and the only reason we didn’t have a war is because of MAD. that being said, there has been a different kind of war waged. An influence war. The US for many years now has been losing ground in that influence war to Russia AND China. Had Russia waltzed in a taken over Ukraine it would and still could significantly undermine the free worlds confidence that the US and its Allies will protect the liberal Democratic world order and it could convince many to shift their allegiance towards Russia and/or China. Given that, and for a myriad of economic, military, political, and philosophical reasons, the US should not allow that to happen, ESPECIALLY in Europe. This is a proxy war the us absolutely must not lose. Like I said too busy to go into more depth. But it’s not just about the Donbas, or the Black Sea or ethnic Russians etc. this is about a much bigger IDEA or BELEIF in the western world order. And as an American, who lives fat off the world because of that world order, we should all be rooting hard for an Ukraine to win and the us to help as much as possible.
Well, I'll give you this much. At least you're being honest about your motivations. Completely selfish motivations. Even though, we as Americans still lived plenty fat when the Soviets ran Eastern Europe. Completely disagree on your reasoning on why this is an urgent priority for the USA. China's influence is a separate issue. One that a certain POTUS brought to the fore, as he was castigated for it, but I digress. This action in Ukraine has actually driven Russia to form closer ties with China. But again, China is a separate issue. With regard to Russia, they simply have not wielded the influence you speak of for quite a long time and their influence has been diminished YoY for decades. We are not and have never been on an inevitable collision course towards war with Russia, since the collapse of the Soviet Union. Russia has been weakened to such a degree and lost so much influence in Eastern Europe, they are nothing more than a thorn in our side, at worst. Once again, a certain POTUS railed against NATO to wean itself from Russian energy a long time ago. Again, castigated. For some reason, the brilliant minds such as yourself thought it was a good idea to bless Germany's unabashed energy policy of importing large amounts of gas from Russia each year. But now we need this war? The duplicity and hypocrisy of those positions is frightening. But again, I appreciate your blunt honesty this go around. Admitting that for you, it comes down to living fat, while hundreds of thousands of people are killed 5,000 miles across the globe. The only issue with that, obvious humanitarian issues aside, is the war is completely unnecessary for us to continue living fat. If there ever was a scenario where NATO and Russia faced off in head-to-head conflict, the kill ratio would be 1000:1 in NATO's favor. In other words, not something Putin wants to explore. You have to dream up these ideas in your head to justify funding and supplying a proxy war that we have very little riding on, whilst hundreds of thousands of civilians will perish. Some as a direct result of weaponry the U.S. will be providing that is banned in 105 countries, including every other country in the G7 but us.
Don’t mistake my blunt honesty as being happy about things. I personally don’t like how the US exists currently. The average child born in the us will consume 53 times more natural resources than someone born in China over the course of their life lol. The US has 5% of the world population and depending on the resource consumes 20-30% of the worlds resources. Our joint strike fighter is a good example of how important global dominance is for the us, parts for that plane are built in 9 different countries. That shit is crazy - we have become reliant on the global supply chain and good will/greed of most of the world to support all we do. The us is living beyond the earths means and most of the rest of the world is footing the bill. But that is possible because of a huge scary military and the idea of peaceful Democratic capitalist coexistence. If the us can’t even guarantee that in Europe? Bad things start happening. And you’re being SUPER revisionist on Russia. In 2012 Obama laughed away their influence and the world has paid for that in Syria, Ukraine in 2014, and several other things and until recently we wondered if the us could even still win a war in Eastern Europe. Several of the largest countries on this planet have either sided with Russia or refused to side with us in this conflict including a few smaller countries in Europe. See Brazil, India, China, South Africa etc. Hell I remember at the beginning of the war we said putting troops in Ukraine was suicide cause Russia would just crush anything there. We have a real chance to end the Russian threat for a long time by winning this one and unless we want to significantly change how the us operates maintaining global hegemony in practice as well as in idea is essential. edit- an obvious potential domino if the us had done nothing would have been China and Taiwan. If countries decide the us is not going to be involved in maintaining world order the idea of using military force and aligning with Russia, China or both is much more appealing. I’d also like to say that Russia stays influential by being a major arms exporter and with this showing the us has a chance to take over even more market share in that space, further weakening Russian influence and strengthening ours.
Never mind how the US military would fare vs the gas station masquerading as a country. I believe it would lose to Ukraine. It’s just not trained for and enculturated in high intensity war.
Yeah, the U.S. has never been in a high-intensity war before. The U.S. would mop the floor with Russia's military just based on the technology differences alone. Our 1980's military technology is easily outclassing everything that Russia has available. Even the Russians are quick to recognize this--their military bloggers were all grateful that they do not have to go up against F-35's and other advanced weapons we have.
Russia is doing a poor job of dealing with casualties. It is estimated that half of the Russian deaths were preventable with good medical care. Hospitals are reserved for officers. Russia is failing to look after its injured soldiers, with around half of deaths preventable and military hospitals likely being reserved for officers, UK intel says (yahoo.com)
It's just the right thing to do to expend all necessary resources to take care of your wounded. Full stop. But even if you were amoral and didn't care, which is horrible, it is also a force multiplier in that your soldiers are far more effective if they know they will be take care of appropriately. All that said, in WWII, Russia got away with treating it's soldiers terribly. It seems to be part of the military culture
More detailed updates - day 502 if interested. Ukraine Invasion Day 502: continued counteroffensive operations in at least three sectors There is a lot to read out there, from DailyKos and others, about Ukraine's current strategy of drawing out Russia into the middle ground away from their defenses, and killing them, especially their artillery with counter battery fire. I just think it bears repeating, especially as some decry the slow territorial progress that Ukraine is making, that 1. They have not yet committed more than a quarter of their western trained forces, 2. They are focusing on shaping the battlefield by destroying artillery and slowly clearing mines. If someone walks up to you and says Ukraine is doomed because math says itll take 10 years to retake all their territory just remember that is not what their goal is right now. What will be fascinating is if they are able to keep this up and what happens to Russia if they continue to degrade their artillery.
Russia starts running low on reserves to prevent Ukraine's re-capture of Bahkmut. Ukraine has been making significant gains around Bahkmut. Russian reserves running low as Ukrainian forces make 'tactically significant gains' around the besieged city of Bakhmut, a think tank says (yahoo.com)
This is an underappreciated cost of war. Here is a STAGGERING statistics from Vietnam: A number of years ago I read an article that indicated Vietnam suffered it's 100,000 Injury or death from citizens running afoul or stepping on unexploded war ordinance from the Vietnam conflict. Most of course attributed to US ordinance. (Mines, bombs, booby traps etc.), Not all were US of course but supposedly a significant %. That is a stunning and shocking (after conflict collateral damage). "By the end of the Vietnam War, there was not a single province that was not contaminated with UXO. Nationwide, there have been more than 100,000 deaths and injuries in the past 50 years, according to Sarah Goring, MAG’s Vietnam Country Director."
Something that should help Putin sleep at night: during the Wagner rebellion, the so-called Praetorian Guard of Moscow (whose leader was hand-picked by Putin and swore to protect Putin at all costs), was nowhere to be found. They were not afraid--they just chose to see what would happen during the coup attempt before they decided how to react to it. This was fairly similar to the failed coup against Gorbachov in 1991--most of the police force called in sick. Why Putin’s ‘Praetorian Guard’ was invisible during the Wagner rebellion (yahoo.com)
this. the deployment of anti-battery radar to locate the artillery and precision guided munitions is taking out the artillery. Cluster munitions will be able to supplement guided munitions to be able to target more artillery positions. Not sure what is going on with the mine clearing equipment. Likely being reserved until artillery is out of range and they can be safely deployed. the long range attacks to destroy munitions dumps, command and control, and railroad are having an effect. drip drip drip...
the rate of duds of unexplained ordinance has changed substantially since then and Ukraine is working to remove or explode mines as they go. death is a consequence of war. If only Putin would not have invaded, all this death to defend/repel would not be occurring.
