Ukraine can both be the victim of an invasion and have one of the most corrupt governments in Europe at the same time.
I’ve never said otherwise. But why keep bringing it up over and over? One could argue all governments are corrupt some are just better at hiding it. How does it further the conversation on the current hostilities in Ukraine?
Because it deserves to be said over and over so people don't forget. The bad guys are not attempting to take the sovereign territory of the good guys. The bad guys are attempting to take the sovereign territory of the other bad guys.
Taking your thesis of Ukraine as “bad guys” for a moment, just how “bad” are they? Are they so bad that they deserve to be invaded, their crops burned, their houses and businesses ruined, their environment polluted for generations? Are they so bad that they should be stripped of all the elements of national identity that most of us take for granted? Are their women so bad they should be ripped from their families and turned into sex slaves for Russian soldiers? Are their children so bad they, too, should be ripped from their families and sent to reeducation camps to learn how to be proper Russians again? I just want to know what degree of bad we’re talking about here.
Fighting for democracy, my ass … A State of Martial Law: America Is a Military Dictatorship Disguised as a Democracy | By John & Nisha Whitehead
You probably could have garnered agreement if you said that the nearly worst guys are trying to take the territory of the likely not best guys. ?
Yes, and if true, which of these things pose the greatest risk to world peace? A no brainer for me. Russia is the aggressor here and should go back home.
File under why bother … At the OSCE forum Russian delegates displayed HIMARS fragments used in shelling civilians in Donetsk. Western officials walked out.
I think it’s “indirect” humanitarian aid due to it saving lives by eliminating Russian assets in numerous ways. Sure you can be critical. I just felt like you were blaming Ukraine only, for being attacked by Russia.
Grownups shouldn’t be allowed to say this is a war of Russian aggression. And they also shouldn’t be allowed to say that Ukraine is a sovereign country.
It's very important that we understand who we are sending $130 billion in U.S. taxpayer money to and for what reasons we are doing it. If we haven't learned that lesson yet, we're doomed to repeat some of our worst history as a nation. None of that changes the fact that Vladimir Putin is an autocratic thug.
Ukraine is the only country where these horrible deeds are happening? Ukraine is the only country where women and children are being exploited? Why are we responsible for Ukraine's housing and businesses? We probably need to address our housing more, don't you think? And assuming for a moment somehow housing in Ukraine is U.S. taxpayer responsibility, how exactly are we helping the housing situation in Ukraine by escalating a war that inevitably means thousands more houses and apartment complexes will be blown up by the Russians?
Here’s an update. Putin will slam the final nail in his coffin is he goes through with this. NATO will respond.
Of course not. Ukrainians have a right to their sovereignty, which was established 30+ years ago. I'm decently-versed on things in this region of the world. A lot of people in this thread are posting from the standpoint that Putin wants to conquer Eastern Europe and I've pointed out many times that is not the case and easy markers we can see for that not being the case. The goal for Russia has always been to keep Ukraine out of NATO and Putin has made it clear over the years that Ukraine is his red line. To be clear, that is his prerogative as well. Doesn't make it right or moral, but it is his prerogative. He will have to pay the price for such a stance, but we can't tell the Russians how they should feel about their security concerns. How would we react if the Russians were fomenting a coup in Mexico City to set up a pro-Russian government in Mexico? My guess is we would at the very least have troubling security concerns about such a scenario (which is ironic considering the border situation with Mexico currently, but I digress).
