Yeah, I've never been able to get into all the ring sports that morphed out of boxing. You know though, Marvin Hagler, Thomas Hearns, Ray Leonard, Roberto Duran, Wilfred Benitez. . . . . the middleweights of the 80s put on a fantasic show! Really more competitive than the heavies.
Ali was the best heavyweight during the era that is considered the greatest in heavyweight history. Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Liston, Norton, Lyle, Shavers, etc. plus he didn't even fight during what are considered the prime years for a fighter.
Yeah that -- I suppose that made him a hero in some peoples' eyes. A goat to others. And it's highly doubtful he would have seen any more of Vietnam than Elvis Presley did. Anything related to the Vietnam War is all very sad
Agreed. When you see me refer to the “ Suits ruin EVERYTHING “, it’s the Corporatizing of talent. Their desire to find a way to “box & reproduce creativity & talent “ just steals the joy from being able to see, hear, experience pure talent.
Loved that era. HS for me and all those fights (and the build up to them) were epic. MMA is just human cock fighting as far as I'm concerned. I know there is tons of skill involved, but it just doesn't grab me as a viewer. Feel like once I've seen one, I've seen them all.
We won't get into the fact that Ho Chi Minh was a complete Americaphile and had approached Wilson and Truman trying to get US support for an independent Vietnam based on the American model (his words). Guy was quoting Jefferson in speeches while we were selling out to France's precious pride.
It's also why they keep regirgitating things (and trying "clever" things like gender swaps, etc.) instead of taking chances on new ideas. Corporations = Cowards. Lazy cowards at that.
Although I would agree they were both great eras for those weight classes, the 70's era of heavyweights were something else. In addition to the sheer skill of the heavyweights from that era, plus the media and global attention for the sport, and the personalities involved...I dont think will ever be duplicated.
The Hagler-Hearns fight. Wow! Three rounds of violence. Absolutely the most exciting three rounds of boxing I've ever seen.
How is it Tom Brady is considered the GOAT because he won more Super Bowls than anyone else, but Bill Russell is not the greatest champion in team sports using the same measure?! He doubled anything Jordan accomplished. Jordan went to UNC & played a minor role on the ONLY national championship team he was on in college. Russell won back to back at the University of San Francisco which had never won before or since. He prevented some guy named John Wooden from getting out of the West Regional with his UCLA Bruins. Russell won an NBA championship his FIRST year as a pro after winning Olympic Gold without a dream team. It took Jordan 5 Years to win a championship. Prior to Russell coming to Boston they had never won a championship. With Russ they would win 11 in 13 years, including 8 IN A ROW. I am not a mathematician but 8 IN A ROW dwarfs Jordan’s 2 3 peats. Additionally, Russell was the first black head coach in any major sport winning consecutive NBA championships his last two years as a player-coach. Russell played in 21 Loser Goes Home Games. HE NEVER HAD TO GO HOME because he was 21-0 in those games. Players in his era were hungrier because winning a championship was the difference between buying a new car or new home. Russell was playing & beating guys like Jerry West, Elgin Baylor & Wilt Chamberlain ( All on the Lakers at one time), Oscar Robertson, Walt Bellamy, Bob Pettit, and Rick Barry to name a few. While it is hard to compare eras today’s players are bigger, faster, stronger, but not as hungry as yesterday’s players. If Russell & those guys were born today they would bigger, faster & stronger too. If today’s Prima Donna’s were born back then they wouldn’t be bigger, faster or stronger. To deny Russell is the Greatest Basketball Player EVER is a symptom of the dread disease Muscular Recentitus. This disease is caused by watching too many ESPN talking heads, but can be cured by reading history!
The 1971 Smokin Joe Frazier defeat of Ali is the single most exciting sporting event I have ever watched. I have watched & attended sporting events since the late 1950’s. The two succeeding bouts were poorly officiated allowing Ali to hold & hug instead of fighting. Frazier would have won all three if Arthur Mercante had reffed the last two as he did the first fight.
No - it’s a true story of a guy who went to Vietnam during the war to look up some of his hometown buddies. Really interesting read
I’m too young to know but that’s really what this thread is about. Youngsters only know the best they’ve ever witnessed. Dr J was my favorite as a kid and I never liked MJ but he waaa bettter than anyone I’ve ever watched.Brady? I dunno, there have been several great ones at qb in my lifetime and football is much more of a team sport than basketball. I mean that in it takes 50 football players to win. 7-8 can win in basketball.
Can’t really disagree with too much here. Russel definitely took his teams straight to the top, so if purely looking at who brought championships, he’s your guy. Different eras though. For most of Russels’ career there were <20 Black players in the NBA. He played his entire career without a 3 point line. Think about that. Totally different style of play. Different game where 1 big dominant big man changes everything. Big men still made impacts through the 90’s, now for the most part a big man is just a piece. It’s almost like the running back in football, where the position has been commoditized. In fact, now many of the top NBA “bigs” almost play as perimeter players, which would have been seen as “soft” back in the day, but the 3 pt shot just became too valuable as the game evolved with new generations of players who could shoot better and better. Very few bigs make their mark primarily on defense and rebounding, not at an all-star level anyway. Jordan played in what was probably the most physical era… and he got 6 rings, but it surely would have been an easy 8 or 9 (maybe all in a row) if not for Bulls management mucking things up. Lebron plays in an era as different from Jordan, as Jordan’s was to Bill Russell. But similarly, his talent i think transcends all eras. Guys got nearly John Stockton level PG skills with the stature of Karl Malone. A guy with that size and skill was combo would have been a unicorn in the 80’s and 90’s. He didn’t get as many rings, and I think because of how many times he moved some people devalue the rings he does have. But for all the people who paint Lebron as soft, I think he would have been interesting in the old school era. Who would have matched up with him on D? Today, it’s almost like a 3pt shootout at times, and Lebron is merely “good” there, not great (and as great as Jordan was, he was a lousy 3 pt shooter, which might be an issue for him if he were teleported into the modern era). Personally, efforts to “rank” players in any specific order I’ve generally found futile. Maybe you can group players in GOAT categories, like in each era there are a few truly transcendent players, guys that bring home a bunch of ‘ships or break all kinds of records. Clearly all these of these guys are in that GOAT category. There is no way to know which one is “the best” because they played in entirely different eras. It’s like comparing Tiger to Jack or Brady to Montana.
My point precisely! I was only 7 when Russell won his first title, but I read about him & the history of players well before my time. I don’t think that is prevalent today. Rather, too many sheepishly accept what some ESPN talking head says without investigating the validity of the claim.
Highlight reels don’t do anyone any justice. If I didn’t watch a guys career in real time, my opinions are worthless.
