DeSantis attacks national Immigration Issues

Speaking of the Radicals, a little memorial on my shelf to my man Thaddeus. The engraving is titled "Passage of the Fourteenth Amendment"

Oh well picture is too large. Not that impressive, but my love for Thaddeus and the 14th Amendment goes back decades, such that I have a little memorial on my office shelf

 

That is somewhat analogous to the European guest worker model, and creates a lot of social disruption

 

There is some logic to that but it doesn't really work in practice. There's all types of underground economy opportunities and also abilities for companies to evade liability by simply working through shells, or just day labor in cash.

I appreciate the sentiment, I just feel like you can't suppress a naturally occurring market. There are just too many examples where it never actually works.
Jangmadang - Wikipedia

 

I don't think that they should be permanently only allowed to work for the one company to maintain status in the country. I can see some sort of a contract to pay off the initial, upfront costs, but I think they should be allowed to stay as long as they abide by some reasonable set of rules (i.e., lack of major criminal activity and attempts to remain employed with only relatively normal breaks in employment).

 

Yo, Governor DeSantis!! Can we let the babies stay and deport the transgenders instead? Asking for a friend.

 

The only realistic way to slow immigration is to either withdraw from the 1951 UNHCR Convention on Refugees or very, very heavily resource our asylum court system with expedited due process and minimal detention. Very costly to implement and economically injurious, with loss of international standing.

We should do something to lessen the burden on border towns, but that is where politics intervenes. Very little constituency for a more efficient humane system that is costly.

 

Seems most of the people trying to enter the country aren’t trying to immigrate, but instead are trying to escape oppressive governments, gang violence, and the cartels. Wouldn’t it make better sense to address those issues, which would be cheaper than building a multibillion dollar wall that can be scaled with a $20 ladder?

 

He knows the position is unconstitutional and he does not care. Happening in Fl - he will take his chances in court

 

I'm sure all the dummies who lost money donating to the first border wall and swore they learned their lesson can't wait to donate again

 

We do, unevenly and with uneven results. Problem is, those reasons do not meet the strict terms for a legitimate asylum claim. The treaties were written in the aftermath of the Holocaust and episodes like the SS St. Louis, and contemplate official state oppression under color of law. The treaties are not meant to compel refuge from the very real threat of criminal violence. But we still try to address.

But we also help to create those conditions through unintended consequences. Greg Grandin’s Empire’s Workshop is a great initial read. Official US policy towards the Northern Triangle during Reagan was Putinesque in its immorality. Jesse Helms is burning in hell. A lot of good US “Christians” that howl about oppression of Christians in the world were fine with systemic massacres, including of priests who advocated for the poor, raping of nuns, etc., to protect oligarchs.

 

Not one president has ever "fulfilled" every single promise they've made in the past. To think that DeSantis would be the first one is not realistic.

 

With Trump and DeSaster, most view these as threats, not promises.

 

Why do you guys think it is not ok to "interpret" the intent of the 14th amendment, but want to "interpret" the meaning of the 2nd amendment?

 

Might ask you the same question. I’d make that trade in a heartbeat btw. No birthright citizenship and all you gunnuts can only own muskets.

 

DeSantis really wants the power to kill some people.

He wants the power to shoot people illegally crossing the border.
He wants the power to end the lives of the children of immigrants by denaturalizing them and sending them to a country they've never known.
He wants to end the lives of any woke person in Florida.

I'd want to commit violence too with the trend of his poll numbers.

 

I think there are multiple issues with discerning and enforcing intent when plain language isn't clear. I'm not saying that even applies to birthright citizenship, but I will try to address it generally.

First, there's a question of whose intent to consider. The drafter or drafters or the provision or amendment itself? The members of the legislatures who ratified? Sentiment of the people at the time if there's data on that? How much weight, if any, should we place on whether there were practices consistent with or inconsistent with a given interpretation before, during, or after an amendment was ratified?

If I recall correctly, Scalia argued that we should consider how text would have been understood at the time, but even he conceded there would still be difficult cases. How does it apply to something like "cruel and unusual punishment" if we're addressing lethal injection formulas? What about the execution of minors now that we have more knowledge about cognitive development? What about forms of psychological punishment/torture that we did not previously understand as well? Is what's impermissibly "cruel and unusual" forever constrained by whatever punishments were permitted or not permitted under English common law?

This is actually a pretty good discussion IMO.

 

Your whole post is great stuff, but trying to determine the historical meaning of "cruel and unusual" is so obviously foolish. No matter which indicia of intent you use, the choice to use the term "unusual" invites using contemporary standards by definition. You're almost defying the drafting to say that you are limited to determining what is "unusual" to what would've been unusual in a different time and place. It's an oxymoron

 

Looks like the Administration is using a version of the second option, heavily resourcing the asylum system, to great effect, at least so far. We’ll see if this holds. If it goes, smart governance. At a minimum, it reveals an attempt to actually fix the problem humanely and legally using to the tools of government instead of stupid xenophobic blather


Thirty miles north, the Biden administration provided a different reception for those attempting to enter the United States illegally, bringing them to a massive tent complex in the desert for migrants facing deportation. The new 360,000-square-foot facility’s shelves were stocked with diapers, snacks and baby formula, signs of the administration’s efforts to meet the changing demands of U.S. immigration enforcement.


The two locations illustrate the extent to which Biden administration officials have begun transforming the way asylum-seekers and migrants are processed along the southern border since May 11, when the White House lifted the pandemic policy known as Title 42. The policy had allowed quick expulsions of migrants who entered the United States illegally but no penalty for those who tried to get in again and again.

Now the administration is allowing tens of thousands of migrants to enter the United States legally each month through the mobile app CBP One, while those who don’t follow the rules face ramped-up deportations and tougher penalties.

The preliminary result is a nearly 70% drop in illegal entries since early May, according to the latest U.S. Customs and Border Protection data. After two years of record crossings and crisis-level strains, the Biden administration appears to have better control over the southern border than at any point since early 2021.



Border ‘eerily quiet’ after US shift on asylum-seekers
Border ‘eerily quiet’ after US shift on asylum-seekers - Tampa Bay Times

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The wall is a dumb idea that will never get funded. Next, he'll probably start promising some impossible plan that he knows will never get past the courts or funded like student loan forgiveness to capture the 20-30yr old vote. What a clown.