Is Uber a civil right ?

My guess is even as 1099'd workers they still have to follow a pretty strict criteria of course.

1099 employees are still basically employees in that they have to follow the guidelines.

So this is certainly an interesting question.

 

It was my understanding that the drivers have the choice of making themselves available or not throughout the day, so yes they do have that choice

 

Not really, more like sun contractors

 

Yes, at least that's exactly what a driver told me in Raleigh last week

 

Is Uber a “Civil Right”? Probably only in the sense that it’s a service falling under public accommodation laws just as a hotel, restaurant, or bus would. You can’t deny a public facing service based on race, sex, religion, etc. It’s not a right in the sense that one has a “right to an Uber”, the right is that you have the right not to be discriminated against on those defined basis.

Can you force an individual driver to go work in a particular neighborhood? I don’t see how you could. But if drivers are turning down individual rides it could be one of those things where “big data” proves out a systemic problem, or even shows an individual driver as illegally discriminating along racial lines. That’s the thing with big tech, there is going to be a data trail. Whereas without the data people might suspect the issue but lack the evidence.

 

That's not what Uber says

 

Not sure about that, the Uber driver doesn't have to provide a wheelchair lift or handicap accessibility in his car. The bus and the restaurant do.
I think @flgator2 has it right, these people choose when to work or when not to work. Like those people that do your grocery shopping for you.

 

Interesting point about the wheelchair.

But I don’t think cabs would be 100% wheelchair equipped either? Yet I’d bet a cab or bus company has to “reasonably accommodate” by sending out a vehicle that *can* accommodate a disabled person. Uber should probably be responsible for that too, but it’s impractical for every vehicle to be so equipped, they just need to provide the framework for a handicap accessible vehicle to be sent. That is a different issue from civil rights (and in fact the ADA is a different law entirely).

The individual “gig economy” contractors do certainly choose when and where they work. So choosing to work in a location cannot in itself be discrimination. Although a big data set might reveal some “systemic” issues like I suggested, it’s not even profound, pretty obvious drivers are going to avoid ghettos at all costs. Where Uber’s data could get interesting is if there’s evidence of drivers skipping fares on the basis of race even in higher fare areas. Like if a guy always skipped over convenient fares for a black rider, and instead goes out of the way to pick up white customers. What should Uber do if through data analytics they become aware of such situations?

 

Seems like the Uber driver could choose to only pick up white people or whatever but the Uber corporation could, if they wanted to, research the drivers history and cut him off of access to their website and communications effectively "firing" him for such behavior.
Then he just signs up with Lyft.

 

I drove for Lyft and Uber years ago before the pandemic as a side job. The thing is this, the arrangement benefits both sides.

If Lyft and Uber want to force drivers to go into a bad area, then they have to make the driver's employees. This would hurt both as it would require Lyft and Uber to provide health insurance, Mandatory Sick Leaves (per law in some states) and potentially other benefits such as 401(k)'s and PTO. It would also require Lyft and Uber to take liability if those drivers are hurt or even killed while doing a drive in a dangerous area. It would also require Lyft and Uber to provide the vehicles instead of the drivers having to provide their own vehicles.

It would hurt the driver's because as employees and not independent contractors Lyft and Uber could force them to now work certain hours. The drivers would not be able to pick and choose their own hours anymore. Plus many drivers work for both (you'll even see both signs in the vehicle), as an employee of one that would create a conflict of interest. Drivers would have to pick one. And yes drivers would then be forced to accept all rides instead of picking and choosing.

If you all forced this I hope you like cabs because you would be going back to them. A lot of drivers would quit if this was forced. I know in Orlando I had areas I would not go to. I mostly focused on the tourist areas, parks and attractions. I would not do pick ups and drops offs in Downtown Orlando on the weekends because it was almost all but assured it would be drunks. I would also not pick up and drop off in bad areas like Parramore and Pine Hills. It simply wasn't worth my health or maybe even my life.

And for those saying it's protected, it's not. No one is saying they are denying the rides based on race or religion. If a driver requested a ride to Parramore or Pine Hills I wouldn't do it, whether they were white, black, Hispanic, Asian or a green man from Mars. It's not about discrimination, it was simply about safety and I think most Lyft and Uber drivers would feel the same way.

 

How did workers comp work? There was none? That is another issue if they want them to be employees.

 

Technically they're not employees of Uber but they do have a contractual relationship with the company and I assume that under the terms of the contract they're required to go where they're called probably limited to very few exceptions and the crime rate of the area where they're called apparently isn't one of them.

 

Exactly. It works for Lyft and Uber because they have very little skin in the game. Lyft and Uber would tell you they are just a software/app company. As the independent contractor you have to pay for car maintenance, gas and gap insurance and get nothing but money in return, no benefits.

A lot of people don't realize this but special insurance has to be bought. Your personal auto insurance stops covering you when you log in to the app as you now need business auto insurance, however the Lyft/Uber insurance doesn't kick until you pick up the people. So in route to pick up if you don't buy additional insurance you are uninsured and screwed if you get into an accident. All of this factors are why I stopped doing it. Luckily it was never my full time job but it was something I did on the side.

But you are right, if they want the driver's to be employees then things like worker's comp and FMLA will apply. Being an independent contractor you had no right to worker's comp.

 

Not really true. As independent contractors you get to set far more of the rules. You get to pick and choose when and where you will go. Trust me, I had a fare one time years ago where the guy wanted to go from Orlando to West Palm Beach. Needless to say I declined that ride just due to distance. The driver's can set whatever boundaries they want and are largely free to accept and decline rides at will. Heck a lot of drivers will have the Lyft and Uber apps and will cancel a ride (regardless of destination or any protected class like race or sex) if a ride comes up in the other app that is more lucrative. It's happened to me where a driver cancelled the ride and I assume it was for that reason.

You are right that if a driver is consistently not picking up rides due to race or sex that could be an issue (though most likely it would just result in the driver being kicked off the app). Not picking up or dropping off in a certain area though is not a protected class. I would never pick up or drop off in the Parramore or Pine Hills area due to crime. It didn't matter what the race or sex of the passenger was.

 

I agree with this. We are a product of our experience, and drivers need to feel that both their person and their vehicle is safe. Otherwise, why bother with being a driver if the risks outweigh the rewards? If they are specifically avoiding demonstrably high-crime areas, regardless of demographics, I have no issue, would do it myself, and would comfortably advise friends and family to do the same. I don’t see that as any different about family choices about where to rent or buy property. If avoiding putting your family into a known high-crime area results in accusations of racism, then I would shrug that off and note that the loudest accusers also prioritize safety over perception when it comes to their families. However, if rideshare drivers are simply avoiding certain demographics without respect to the area of pickup, then they should probably find something else to do.

 

Unless the person requesting the ride puts a profile picture up. The driver has no idea who or what race the person is requesting the ride.

Assumptions are being made because of the demographics of the neighborhood. But safety concerns are very legitimate.

 

Exactly. The racism concerns are overblown. Most Lyft and Uber drivers, especially here in Florida, are Hispanic. Almost all the Lyft rides I've done in the last 2 years the drivers were from Venezuela, Colombia or Puerto Rico. Not the types who are going to be racist against black areas. Plus like you said most passengers don't have a picture so unless it's a name you know is a black name or white name or hispanic name you don't know who you're picking up. Again my rule was I would not pick up or drop off in Pine Hills or Parramore due to the crime, regardless of if it was a black, white, hispanic, asian or green alien.

Especially Parramore or anywhere close to OBT in Orlando (for those who know the term) as for all I knew I was taking someone to a drug deal or picking up someone from a drug deal. I wasn't risking being an accessory to a crime.

I would also not pick up in Downtown Orlando at night due to the high chance it was probably a person or group who were drunk. Just wasn't dealing with the potential abuse and/or the clean up if they vomited.

 

Uber drivers are NOT employees.

I could not open the link -2020?

Many court decisions supporting this truism.

No WC benefits. Can leave the app off all day if they want.



Start with that. No ‘strict’ criteria.