Lock him up! CNN reports Trump to be indicted

Yes!! It is the obstruction and the intent to defraud. That is what differentiates this from everyone else. And what differentiates the treatment of the first 35 +/- documents he returned.

 

I enjoy the discussions with thoughtful posters, so I’m hoping you stay and argue all year.

 

@pkaib01

You were saying?

ajoseph, in response to:

 

There are also other documents that he took with him to New Jersey which are likely going to be the basis of separate charges, venued in New Jersey. It's unclear whether the government has even been able to seize or regain all of those. At least some of those are not in the government's possession as of this date

 

Don't lump yourself with our other conservative posters. That is doing them a disservice.

I'd prefer a courteous, intelligent discussion of the issues vs the mud and insulting behavior you bring to the table.

 

I only return the respect that I am given.

 

Nope. He said the lying is the "most egregious conduct". That does not mean the failure to return the docs upon request is not also a crime. You put words in his mouth by implying it's only the lying.

Stop it.

 

He agreed with my statement that you called a strawman and I would like an apology from you.

 

@ajoseph - were you saying it's only the lying that is an issue with trump's conduct, and not also the failure to secure, return or keep the docs confidential? Your prior posts state otherwise.

 

Wait. So you now have evidence that DOJ is prosecuting Trump over the docs he returned. If so I'd like to see that verified, if not then you are making a false accusation. Routinely, DOJ in classified docs cases with cooperative parties, looks to intent before prosecuting. Obviously did not work with the malicious intent of Trump, however, it will probably be the case for Pence and Biden as it was with Clinton. This is not new to this thread, but since it destroys your narrative, you must have forgotten. I'll be here to remind you, should you fail to remember again.

 

We know

 

With respect to the obstruction and false statement charges, there really isn’t a particularly good argument to make.

He wasn’t the President anymore when the conduct giving rise to those charges occurred, there isn’t a “former high ranking official exception” that authorizes lying to the DOJ, and whether he had a legal right to keep the documents in the first place is 100% irrelevant to those charges.

“I have the right to keep these documents” and “What documents? I don’t have any documents.” are decidedly not the same thing. Had he asserted the first one, he probably would have lost in civil court but all he would have been looking at was an order to produce them, and potential contempt sanctions if he didn’t. He instead chose the second route, and now gets to deal with obstruction and false statement charges as a result.

 

Not the argument I was making.

 

Once again, once the clock hit 12:01 EST on Jan 20, 2021, Trump was no longer POTUS, and had zero legal right to possess any of his Presidential documents. The law from the PRA is very clear here.

Once again, had Trump returned all the documents when NARA first requested, or when initially subpoenaed, charges probably never have been filed. But again, that's not what happened. Trump lied to the Feds about having them, lied to his own lawyers about having them which lead to a lie on an affidavit, and moved boxes to hide them from the Feds. This resulted in the Feds having no choice but to get a search warrant to finally get all the docs.

One the warrant was signed and enacted, there was probably no way Trump could avoid an indictment at that point. Trump obstructed the Feds, and the evidence is obvious. He deserves to be charged.

Trump could probably get out of jail time, but at this point, it would require more than just returning all docs, assuming he still has some. It would require a guilty plea, a fine, and an agreement from Trump to never hold office, elected or appointed, that has any level of security clearance. This includes the office of President.

Trump has two options right now. Plea guilty and accept punishment. Or go to trial and let the chips fall where they may. Trump and his lawyers will attempt to delay as much as possible, but the only thing that might get Trump out of a trial is a blanket pardon by the next POTUS, assuming Trump can delay the trial that long.

 

Dollars to donuts Trump no longer possesses all of the missing documents. Some are likely in Saudi Arabia and some are in Russia.

Jack Smith isn't done with charges. Just wait until he files the ones in NJ for dissemination of top secret information out of Bedminster. And then there are the 1/6 charges likely coming.

As for the Florida charges, the Feds always have more discovery than what the indictment document shows. Some people are going to look even more foolish than they already do for defending the orange buffoon.

 

Justin Cooper smashed Hillary's cellphones, not Hillary. Paul Combetta of Platte River Networks deleted Hillary's emails, not Hillary. Hillary's email server was turned over to the DOJ, it was not destroyed.

 

Yes and Michael Corleone didn’t kill anybody.

 

I realize you are often fact adverse, but my answers were/are factual.

 

Yep, and Michael doesn't kill anybody in this sequence.

 

Does that mean you're finally going to shut your pie hole about comparing Trump's situation to Hillary's?