Ironic that poster wants DOJ to look the other way for Trump but then states "I'm getting the vibe that you guys are making up these rules as you go along." Cultists are funny like that, I suppose.
Equal treatment paired with not prosecuting your political opponents for crimes you yourself are guilty of is not "making up the rules as I go along." It's been the standard in this country for a long time.
Agree. They are afraid of him going nuclear on them is my only guess. I literally know no one who wants Trump as the nominee. Some will begrudgingly vote for him(not me). I know it's anecdotal but I am in a very conservative profession so it's interesting to see most people I know are disgusted finally(took long enough) with the idiot. Nuclear meaning he goes third party and screws the R's. Wouldn't put it past that POS. He just wants the grift to continue.
Haven't read the entire thread but I have a question. Is there any legal standing for a sitting senator to remove and have in their possession classified docs outside of a scif?
To your first paragraph, not necessarily if he believes the NARA request was frivolous or his power to declassify overrides it. He would be playing the game on their terms if he sent them such a letter laying out his legal argument. I see what you're saying about arguing that with the DOJ, etc etc and I do believe in his arrogance, he dismissed the implied seriousness of the action. But that arrogance isn't exclusive to Donald J Trump. We've seen it from many of his predecessors expressed in various actions and words. I don't believe he did it because he's too stupid to understand what he's doing. I think he knew quite clearly what he was doing. His arrogance is not completely misplaced as time and again, the courts have upheld the broad authority of the executive to do things many at the time thought were highly illegal, unethical or unconstitutional. Look at all the executive orders bypassing Congress to move heaven and earth. Hard to argue he didn't have the power to declassify documents he was obviously cleared to see at the time. You gotta remember, we're talking about the POTUS, ex-POTUS, not Joe Blow off the street. They are picking a technical fight with a POTUS over these documents. If he wanted to spill the beans on national security to a foreign entity or even an entity within the US, he could and can easily do that with all the information he has memorized from his time as POTUS and that would be far more voluminous and detrimental to national security than what's in those documents. I believe they'll have to prove he was deliberately attempting to do harm or profit from maintaining those documents in his home and they'll also have to answer as to why all these other presidents wound up with classified documents in their home. The first offender, okay, but when it keeps happening and happening with multiple presidents, why didn't you prosecute those people? These are all questions his defense is going to ask the court and jury. Whether you believe they hold up is totally up to you to decide, but his defense team's job is to convince a few jurors that he might be innocent and then it's an easy acquittal. To your second paragraph and to be clear, I'm essentially playing devil's advocate here, because all his defense team has to do is convince a couple of jurors and it's over. They will likely argue said "bunch of additional crimes" only occurred as a result of a frivolous inquiry to begin with and the president was simply not willing to play along after what happened with the Russia scam. I personally would have to hear and see ALL the evidence from both sides before I can opine how I would vote as a juror. But I'm guessing by the time it's all laid out, there won't be one lone juror who's objecting to a guilty verdict. It'll be several of them. You may be completely correct in your assessment, but I would need to see and weigh all the evidence and facts from both sides.
Zero. Clinton deleted her personal emails off her server before the investigation. There were about 60,000 emails, and 33,000 or so were official Government emails she forwarded onto the official Secretary of State email account so they could be properly recorded as records. And I'm not making the rules as I go along. The DOJ has a long history of adjudicating cases like this. Comply and cooperate early on, and chances are the charges will be light, if any at all. Obstruct, lie, and don't cooperate, then charges will follow. The DOJ will also allow many to get off lightly if they plead guilty. That's because a guilty plea means the DOJ doesn't have to produce documents in court, and won't have to worry about courtroom workers and jury members having proper security clearance. This is what happened in the Berger case. He got off lightly, yes, with just a $10k fine and agreement to never have security clearance again. I would imagine the DOJ may have already offered Trump a similar agreement. But that would require a guilty plea, and Trump to never run for elected office that contains security clearance again.
You may want to research that Classified Information Procedures Act which outlines how classified information can be handled during a trial. In-camera reviews are also possible. Also note that the special master oversaw the categorization of materials seized during the initial search.
There's a delete button on your email, then there's deletion off the server. Hillary Clinton deleted all the emails before the subpoena. I would imagine that she was not very tech savvy, and didn't know the emails still existed on the server. The server was deleted a few days after the subpoena was issued. But in Hillary's mind, the emails were gone and forgotten, because she hit the delete button. So technically, she didn't delete anything after the subpoena. She also testified, under oath, that all Secretary of State emails on her server were forwarded onto the official email account. The FBI searched, and likely found several emails as part of chains that Hillary deleted, but existed on other accounts. None of these emails were found to be official Secretary of State emails. Most were about things like Chelsea's wedding, yoga, and other things nobody cares about. Is it possible that some of those emails contained classified information? Sure. Likely? No. The 33,000 emails the FBI did find, had only about 100 emails in question, and plenty of emails where Hillary acted 100% appropriately when she responded the server she was on wasn't secure, and the conversation needed to be moved. In the end, twice the FBI investigated and twice they recommended against indictment. Trump's case? Completely different. Read the indictment.
Here's the right-wing propaganda over at Politifact. "Trump’s timeline is correct. The congressional subpoena came on March 4, 2015, and an employee deleted the emails sometime after March 25, 2015, three weeks later." PolitiFact - Donald Trump says Hillary Clinton deleted 33,000 emails after getting a subpoena
Cult followers will believe anything. Did she also think the documents she sent Sandy to destroy were deleted too?
Apparently a Yale lawyer, former First Lady, former Secretary of State, and former favorite to be President of the United States is a bigger idiot regarding obstruction and cover-ups than the average American. Not a single honest person believes she didn't know what she was doing. She knew EXACTLY what she was doing.
As someone said earlier far more eloquently, proof of this is the fact that Trump was NOT charged for the partial set of documents he wrongfully took, but returned when asked. He was ONLY charged for the documents he failed to return(and lied about).
And I'm saying the DOJ can cover their ass if they're willing to give Trump an offer to drop the indictment the second he turns over the documents, or even offers him a light plea deal in exchange for the documents.
Someone absolutely told that employee to BleachBit the emails. This occurred two years after she left the administration. She gets the subpoena and then bam, all the sudden 33,000 emails are deleted. The Clintons have been threading the legal needle for decades. Both very highly educated lawyers. It's what they do.
I’m reading this and all the other posts. I think I’ve finally figured out your position. Do you actually think Trump is still the President? Or, do you think the law finds that a FORMER President retains his ”Executive” branch status FORVER?
Hillary Clinton is 75 years old and was born in 1947. She didn't grow up with computers, and certainly didn't have an email account growing up. It would not surprise me that she didn't understand that hitting the delete key on her email server wasn't permanent. And again, anything ever put online is never truly permanently deleted. The DOJ and FBI had breadcrumbs to follow and find a lot of emails that Hillary deleted, especially if they were part of reply chains that had full threads. The FBI found nothing, nada, zip, zilch, and zero evidence, as stated by the Politifact article, that Clinton deleted anything pertaining to her job as Secretary of State. So either Hillary is a mastermind criminal who can not only delete stuff off her own server, but every server of every person she ever emailed, or there is simply evidence the FBI could not find that the deleted emails pertained to her job at all. What's the most likely scenario? Now, compare that to Trump. Read the indictment. He purposely lied to the Feds. Purposely lied to his own lawyers, and purposely tried to hide the docs so the Feds couldn't find them. That's called obstruction that the DOJ can prove. Trump could've done what Pence and Biden did. Turn over all docs and invite the FBI to conduct thorough investigations of everywhere and anywhere docs might be held, and allow NARA to take them into custody. Do that, and no charges ever get filed.
