War in Ukraine

Could very well be right. There are sure to be numerous studies as a result of this war; chief amongst the subjects will certainly be drone usage.

 

Nah, tanks are still valuable weapons. They can provide armored mobile fire support, there's simply nothing else that can do what they can do. What this war has shown is what many have already known, which is that tanks are just one part of a combined army, that no matter how advanced they are they're not very useful if they're not properly supported by infantry, artillery, air defense/support, and of course, proper tactics. With that said, if all else being equal, the side with tanks is gonna smash the side without them.

 

I respectfully disagree. The last war they seemed effective in, was Iraq I.

But that's bc Hussein, like Putin, was militarily primitive, so he rolled out his tanks and aimed them at US's significantly superior tanks, and thereby gave the faux illusion that the damn things are still useful (via US's dominant showing).

Against lesser tanks.

One of the greatest uses of the Tank has been as an instrument of intimidation. e.g. Poland shat their britches when Hitler rolled in his tank brigades, combined with air support. Ditto France. but as the war drug on, even in WWII--its hey day--once the intimidation is factor had worn, the tank became less effective. (Battle of the Bulge; Hitler's superior tanks against allied tanks... defeated, largely b/c intimidation factor has dwindled to nil).

Putin--again, militarily primitive--figured he'd roll in 1000 tanks, and the Ukes would shit their britches, and raise the white flag. Instead, they took up the gauntlet, and took to target practice on the sitting barrels of explosives, filled with captive soldiers.... and exposed the tank as a vestige of yesteryear.

...and when it came their turn to rollout their shiny new tank toys....the point they'd made, was made against them.

Again, Ukraine was kickin' Russia's cans all over the place when they didn't have tanks.

They get tanks...that get smashed too...and still break through Russia's defense.

They just seem awful spendy and useless to me.

Don't shit your britches when they come in; get the hell out of the way...then start picking multi-million dollar enemy investments off along the way, and watch the enemy squirm at their spendy losses...

RIP tank.

Other than the occasional cameo by primitive military types, parades (like horses too), and such, their day of dominance--or rather importance--on the battlefield, seems to have simply passed.

Of course the MIC will continue to pimp them as incredibly effective--bc they're incredibly profitable--but push come to shove, you'd get more bang for your buck sending in troops on horse back, armed with swords n shields, than tank brigades.

jmh/fwiw

 

They ran out of prisoners to feed into the meatgrinder and dod cut their supplies?

Or maybe he wants putin to fall?

 

Ukraine war: Kyiv claims first victories of counter-offensive - BBC News

 

Ukraine's offensive's current ineffectiveness is more due to being up against well manned and well dug in Russian defenses for the first time. This is in contrast to the thinly defended Kharkov line earlier in the war.

I mean, imagine if Ukraine launched those attacks without tanks, the casualties they would've suffered.

You do raise a good point about the cost though, but at ~$10 mil a pop are they actually cost effective these days? Maybe it's better to make them simpler, offload some of their defenses to other dedicated platforms e.g. defense against missiles instead of trying to cram them into individual tanks.

Modern warfare is very complex now, there's a lot of interdependence between platforms. I think both sides are starting to find the right balance. The critical next step would be who can act upon the change of balance.

We've seen Russians adjust their tactics so that infantry anti-tank weapons like the Javelin and NLAW are basically useless now. They've also really stepped up on EW while increasing their own drone use, making Ukrainian drones less effective and theirs more so. We need to be equally agile and start massively increasing our aid in EW to counter increasing Russian drone use, for example.

 

It’s my unsupported opinion that Wagner is effecting a pullout in an effort to strangle the Russian military into forcing their reliance on them. They want Russian military to falter without them, and then come in as the savior. And that is when the power will switch to Progizhin.

 

Pages taken from the Iliad, a la Achilles and his Myrmidons, vis a vis Agamemon?

LOL!

Flatter themselves, much?

 

I'm not sure how much Faith to put into most of these Tweets, but some of them are from reputable tweeters. Interesting

https://twitter.com/hashtag/RussiaIsCollapsing?t=NYM7fgnFOOglmKk2MimKGg&s=09

 

Putin must have helped himself to one of Prigozhin’s salt wives (or is the correct term forest wife?).

 

Perhaps he allows them to fail to lead the public revolt against Putin? Pull back to a defensive position mid Crimea and be able to stop a Ukrainian offense that is tired and depleted after killing all those Russians. Where are the Chechens? Integrated or independent?

 

Unless the opposition controls the sky via drone, chopper, or jet. Ukraine is taking losses from lack of air control. F-16's and antiair batteries should be controlling the sky. Biden screwed the pooch on that decision and it is showing itself on the battlefield

 

someone is inflicting some damage well behind the lines. excellent work. taking Melitopol would be what I would consider ph 1 of the advance. my fear is that the russians will massacre what ukranians are left in the area in retaliation.

Russian locomotive carrying fuel to front blown up in Melitopol (msn.com)

On 22 April, Fedorov reported that a diesel locomotive filled with fuel exploded in the area of the depot, right "under the nose of an armed guard."

On 12 June, the mayor notes that explosions are heard in Melitopol for the second night in a row.

According to him, at 01:00 on the night of 10-11 June, during the curfew, the Russian military police opened fire on the soldiers from Ossetia; one Ossetian was killed, another was wounded.

On Monday night, Fedorov said that "something exploded loudly in the west of the city: residents of Yurivka and Novy Melitopol heard it."

Volodymyr Rohov, a proxy of the Russian invaders in Zaporizhzhia Oblast, has reported the alleged explosions in the temporarily occupied cities of Tokmak and Melitopol.

 

Ukraine currently suffering the loss of its army.

 

I think it more likely that:

a) Wagner troops probably need a rest after many months fighting in the bloodiest street-to-street fighting in this war.

b) Wagner troops are probably best suited for localized offensive operations, not widespread defensive operations. Remember, a percentage of them came out of prison and would likely run away if they were not bottled up in a small-area battle. Once contained to a small geographical area, then can be forced forward to gain ground.

and/or

c) Putin and the Russian army generals do not want Wagner to participate in the war any more than they already have. They kidnap Russian army regulars and hold them hostage for more ammunition. And Prigo talks too much, interfering with the smooth transmission of propaganda to the masses.

 

It would have been good to get some U.S. Abrams tanks into the action quicker. They are heavier than the Leopards, and can probably take more punishment.

 

Russia's blowing up the dam not only flooded out Russian military positions, but it caused the canal supplying drinking water to Crimea, Russia's prized possession that it stole fair and square, to dry up. Now Russia has no choice but to drill new wells and truck in drinking water.

Ukrainian canal supplying drinking water to Crimea drying up after dam blast

 

Russia has been having some problems with artillery shells self-detonating. That probably won't inspire confidence from the troops.

Russia bans use of large quantities of ammunition due to self-detonation – General Staff

 

Good thread on loss of the Bradleys