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Foreign Language Education

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by mrhansduck, Jun 8, 2023.

  1. mrhansduck

    mrhansduck GC Hall of Fame

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    This is only kinda political, I guess, but found this interesting, and we've had other education threads here.

    Curious how many people we have who speak or have tried to learn a second language? What languages and what is your level?

    In addition to the business and cultural opportunities, I've read some articles suggesting that learning a second language has cognitive benefits.

    I would consider my Spanish level intermediate with true fluency as the goal. I've read about the comprehensible input model and find that I have probably improved more listening to discussions that aren't too technical and people are speaking more slowly. I find comedy and jokes to be the most difficult to understand.

    I've learned a few phrases in various languages over the years. Japanese seems relatively easy since it's not a tonal language and the vowels are consistent and not unlike Spanish. I tried to learn a little Mandarin year ago when I went to China. It is really on another level of difficulty for English speakers. I can't even get the translation app to figure out what I'm trying to say in Mandarin.

    If I could have one super-skill, it might be speaking all of the world's languages. I'm very envious of the legit polyglots who exist.

    https://badgerherald.com/opinion/20...rge-in-improving-u-s-foreign-language-system/

    While America as a nation is deeply behind almost every other country in terms of foreign language, it should be noted that the variation across states is wide. Wisconsin boasts the second highest rate in the nation at 36.29%, compared to most other states that linger in the 10-20% range. This makes the Badger state a leader in the U.S. for teaching its youth a second language young, but still a decent ways behind curriculums in Europe.

    Learning a second language can set students up for success in their careers, academics and personal lives. With Wisconsin already leading the nation in the classroom, the state has to take the initiative to drive the U.S. toward becoming a truly multilingual country.

    It is obvious that in the age of mass globalization, national job markets are becoming intertwined with one another. Many businesses have offices around the world or require travel in some aspect of their employment. As such, having fluency in another language is becoming a bigger factor in who gets hired and who does not for certain employers.

    This leaves students without a second language with fewer job prospects outside of the U.S. or other predominantly English-speaking nations. The U.S. and its mostly monolingual population is at an increasing disadvantage in a world that is becoming more internationally integrated by the day.
     
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  2. OklahomaGator

    OklahomaGator Jedi Administrator Moderator VIP Member

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    I took 4 years of Spanish in high school.
     
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  3. Emmitto

    Emmitto VIP Member

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    I took the usual HS and college Spanish classes, and had a Spanish-fluent GF for 18 years. She learned through traditional schooling and is indeed fluent. I met her at a company where she was the lead in the Spanish department, and she is now a HS Spanish teacher. I was under the impression I was pretty solid. So I volunteered through Catholic Charities to teach GED classes to Spanish speakers. They actually want you to speak exclusively in English in the classes, so no Spanish necessary, but I knew I had a big advantage being a quasi-Spanish speaker. And then I found out I was unequivocally NOT a Spanish speaker. This was a mix of Central and South American countries, so different dialects and such. But they could certainly understand each other. I followed along maybe 10% of what they said. If I had truly needed to communicate in Spanish I would have been in trouble.
     
  4. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    I thought German was easy-ish because there is similar structure to English, but there are things about German which just require memorization and repetition and have no intuitive logic, like some Der, Die and Das gendered nouns. French was more difficult for me, but there are enough overlap with English that its not incomprehensible. I've always wanted to learn a really useless language, like Polish or something.
     
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  5. BossaGator

    BossaGator GC Hall of Fame

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    I’ve studied Latin, French, and Spanish, enough to get the gist of the written languages but not enough to be conversational (although I’m becoming slightly better at Spanish through more frequent usage). Looking to renew my study of French and start learning Brazilian Portuguese (so I can sing bossa nova and samba tunes in the original language).
     
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  6. dynogator

    dynogator VIP Member

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    Some Spanish I absorbed through being born and raised in Key West, and more French than most, but nowhere near fluent. Read it better than speak it.
     
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  7. sierragator

    sierragator GC Hall of Fame

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    I took Latin in middle school and Spanish after that. I wish I were more fluent in Spanish (enough to use it for work purposes).
     
  8. SmootyGator

    SmootyGator GC Hall of Fame

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    I took three years of Spanish in HS and learned a good bit because I enjoyed it. I remember most of what I learned in HS, and added little bits and pieces over the past 30 years, mainly because I'm in construction and I'm around Spanish speaking folks a lot. About 3 months ago I decided that I really want to get fluent in it. I've been putting in 5-6 hours a week and it's showing. Reading children's books in Spanish has really helped. Mostly stuff for 3 to 5 year-olds right now, but starting to get into books that are for 6-10 year-olds. I've found that mixing up the memorization/reading has helped rather than focusing on one or the other.
     
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  9. ncargat1

    ncargat1 VIP Member

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    Grew up in Miramar with Spanish speaking friends, took 3 years of Spanish in high school and now use Babbel to be able to converse with my team in Costa Rica without too much laughing at my pronunciations.
     
  10. latergatercg

    latergatercg Sophomore

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    Japanese is insanely difficult to learn. English and Spanish are the same
    language compared to Japanese. It may not seem that way but it is. And getting from the intermediate level to advanced can be 10 years of study.
     
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  11. gatordavisl

    gatordavisl VIP Member

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    My wife is from Taiwan and speaks Mandarin. I tried learning it, but it was a hopeless endeavor with my workload and other obligations.
     
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  12. mrhansduck

    mrhansduck GC Hall of Fame

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    I did a free trial with Baselang, where they match you up with tutors. It was pretty expensive. I recently became aware of iTalki. Haven't looked into the pricing yet, but here's an example of how those go.

     
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  13. Emmitto

    Emmitto VIP Member

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    To continue with the thread theme, I can tell you that the aforementioned GF hired everyone else for the Spanish department at the company. These reps spoke to Spanish speakers about consumer electronics (they did all the sales, tech support, CS, etc.)

    Most interviewees were Spanish degree holders. And a very large percentage of them were basically NOT Spanish speakers in any functional way. They were generally solid with reading and writing, but conversation was another universe. Some, like the GF, were legit all around. Most of the hirees were either Spanish speakers who learned English, or English speakers who learned Spanish informally, like having a Spanish speaking spouse. English speakers who had only learned via traditional schooling were the least likely to be able to handle real-world conversations.

    So I agree that in a world only becoming more intermingled, people who are choosing to stay monolingual and expecting unearned leverage to bring everyone else to them are making a huge mistake. And school systems at any level that aren't doing languages the right way are also doing everyone a disservice.
     
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  14. mrhansduck

    mrhansduck GC Hall of Fame

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    Reading and writing are definitely easier for me.

    Given my four years of DE Spanish in high school and having spent a summer in Argentina visiting a girlfriend, I decided to take a 3000 level Commercial Spanish class at UF. I was nervous to find out on the first day that the class was not only taught in Spanish, but most of the students were native speakers, and even some of those who weren't native were fluent as far as I could tell. I decided to change the class to pass/fail just in case.

    I think I wound up with what would have been a B+. I guess some of the students didn't bother to study for the business-specific vocabulary quizzes. I did have to give an oral presentation about a business project in Spanish. I was terrified and thought it was a train wreck but maybe the professor felt sorry for me because I think I got a good grade.

    I had no problem at all following the professor, but he was probably speaking very formally, clearly, and relatively slowly on purpose. I contrast that with how I'd typically feel hanging out with a group of my Puerto Rican friends talking and really struggling to keep up.
     
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  15. Emmitto

    Emmitto VIP Member

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    Most of the customers I referenced were Puerto Rican. That was part of it, the PR style is almost its own thing. And formal Spanish teaching is more like Spain or Mexico. Nothing wrong with that obviously, but also missing a whole lot of nuance to get you through in all other countries. Immersion, and I also had a class like that and dreaded every minute, is probably the best way to gain a practical understanding. I can often, but still with huge gaps, follow a very formal Spanish (from Spain) speaker although they are often a little too fast for me, or a formal Mexican speaker so long as there isn't much slang. Outside of those two styles understanding nosedives fast. And formulating my own sentences on the spot is beastly. I usually just get to a dead end, convo over unless the other person can save us.
     
  16. thomadm

    thomadm VIP Member

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    I disagree, technology will make it work. There is already AI work being done to create a real time universal translator.
     
  17. latergatercg

    latergatercg Sophomore

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    I studied Spanish and French. I find the idea of studying another language exciting because travel and reading are so important to me.


    I think it's nice to learn another language, but not essential. There might be cognitive benefits to learning a foreign language but reliable studies are difficult to do. And then it would have to be more important than something else a student might use their time for. I mean, great for you if you can learn Mandarin or Arabic, but it's
    going to require an enormous amount of time outside of school hours, unless you were raised by a native speaker.

    If English were not the international language then of course Americans would learn that other language. But it's not essential if you live in the US. And which foreign language should be learned? Would starting German in second grade increase a student's chances of eventually get a job in Germany or working with German clients? Maybe. Is this of high importance? I doubt it.

    I could see the argument for teaching Spanish alongside English from an early age and then do the normal foreign language curriculum on top of that. It might be an idea worth trying in certain parts of the country. Maybe it's already the case in some places.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2023
  18. mrhansduck

    mrhansduck GC Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, part of my issue is being overly anxious about making grammatical mistakes when trying to form compound sentences with different moods or tenses, such as, "If I had known before I arrived that there was not going to be food served, I would have eaten something earlier." I asked a friend about that example once, and he told me that lots of even native speakers make grammatical mistakes and I was way too focused on the details. The subjunctive mood gets especially tricky to me since it's not as prevalent or important in English. Not surprisingly, I asked one of my friends something about subjunctives, and he had no idea what I was talking about.

    Vocab is probably a bigger issue for me really. Recently, I had to relay a message involving the word "doormat." I had no idea how to say that in Spanish. It's not really an obscure word, but not sure when I would have ever encountered it. In that case, I had time to look up the word and just memorized it. But I often resort to Spanglish and hand gestures when I don't know a word or phrase. I'm trying to get out of that habit, but it seems to work. Partly I think because many Spanish "only" speakers understand far more English than they want to admit. Puerto Ricans, specifically, use so many English words that I sometimes got confused when they used an English word because that's not what I was listening for.
     
  19. enviroGator

    enviroGator GC Hall of Fame

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    All my learning in Japanese has been via watching Anime. lolz
     
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  20. enviroGator

    enviroGator GC Hall of Fame

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    Tried to learn Spanish when in my late 40s... but it didn't stick.

    As an ex-friend of mine used to needle me with, "Él apenas puede hablar inglés."