Welcome home, fellow Gator.

The Gator Nation's oldest and most active insider community
Join today!
  1. Hi there... Can you please quickly check to make sure your email address is up to date here? Just in case we need to reach out to you or you lose your password. Muchero thanks!

USSC orders Alabama to add one more minority district

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by oragator1, Jun 8, 2023.

  1. oragator1

    oragator1 Hurricane Hunter Premium Member

    23,336
    6,034
    3,513
    Apr 3, 2007
    Encouraging that they are doing this, 5-4 decision.
    And yes it goes both ways, I hate gerrymandering generally. it creates more partisanship because most of the districts are safe, and disenfranchises groups where it happens.
    But maybe this sends a message to other states.

    Supreme Court orders voting maps redrawn in Alabama | CNN Politics
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Informative Informative x 2
  2. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

    17,619
    2,864
    1,618
    Apr 3, 2007
    Great timing. They made sure that the districts were in place for the last election, along with a few others, which created the House majority. I look forward to Steve Vladeck's break down. Finally started his book, which is great
     
  3. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

    17,619
    2,864
    1,618
    Apr 3, 2007
    And depending upon the reasoning, which will require analysis, this could also be applicable to Florida. Remember that DeSantis went extra racist, even over the Florida legislature, last time to knock out an extra minority seat which, at least from the headline, should also be illegal under this ruling
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2023
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  4. OklahomaGator

    OklahomaGator Jedi Administrator Moderator VIP Member

    124,076
    164,221
    116,973
    Apr 3, 2007
    I hate gerrymandering as well. I still am a proponent of having a computer draw the maps with the only data being the addresses of citizens, not the color of their skin, political affiliation, sex, or any other characteristic. My idea is the computer minimizes the total circumference of all the districts in the state.
     
    • Like Like x 9
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Winner Winner x 3
    • Informative Informative x 2
  5. ridgetop

    ridgetop GC Hall of Fame

    2,112
    735
    1,848
    Aug 4, 2020
    Top of the ridge
    Use chatgpt or another AI to draw the districts… what could go wrong?!?!?
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2023
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
  6. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer VIP Member

    18,247
    6,183
    3,213
    Oct 30, 2017
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Orange_and_Bluke

    Orange_and_Bluke Premium Member

    10,323
    2,544
    3,288
    Dec 16, 2015
    Who controls the computer and who writes that program? The govt? Lol.
    I don’t trust it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

    17,619
    2,864
    1,618
    Apr 3, 2007
    I have to say, based upon quick high-level read, I agree with Alito and disagree with Robert's majority opinion, at least in terms of application of Court's precedents. Roberts says that this is a matter of faithfully applying the prior precedents but it seems to run directly afoul of his prior specious reasoning, which completely ignored the text of the 15th Amendment and created a new species of federalism unknown and undecipherable from the Constitutional text.

    I think Alito is correct that there prior precedent should allow them to continue to ignore the 15th Amendment as if it did not exist. I suspect Sam is angry at the perceived impact of pressure on the courts.

    Make no mistake, the prior precedents that Sam is relying upon are completely indefensible and cannot be squared with the straightforward language of the 15th Amendment. But that never stopped them before.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2023
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. OklahomaGator

    OklahomaGator Jedi Administrator Moderator VIP Member

    124,076
    164,221
    116,973
    Apr 3, 2007
    • Informative Informative x 5
    • Agree Agree x 4
  10. ridgetop

    ridgetop GC Hall of Fame

    2,112
    735
    1,848
    Aug 4, 2020
    Top of the ridge
    There will ALWAYS be complaints. But I like Oklahomas idea.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Fistbump/Thanks! Fistbump/Thanks! x 1
  11. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

    17,619
    2,864
    1,618
    Apr 3, 2007
    Good thread by Melissa Murray

     
  12. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

    16,260
    2,098
    1,718
    Dec 9, 2010
    I wouldn't be surprised if this forces Louisiana to add a district based in New Orleans and a district based in Baton Rouge. As it is now, the state took areas with heavier black populations of both cities and linked them with a narrow strip that goes straight up the river to make a Democratic vote sink. Louisiana has fewer districts, but a higher proportion of black voters.
     
  13. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

    17,619
    2,864
    1,618
    Apr 3, 2007
  14. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer VIP Member

    18,247
    6,183
    3,213
    Oct 30, 2017
    Why is that better? It looks prettier, but it doesn't speak to whether it actually is a superior map.

    It's going to have a sizable impact. Alabama, Louisiana, Georgia, and potentially Florida and Texas will have to redraw maps. There may be more states.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  15. GatorRade

    GatorRade Rad Scientist

    8,748
    1,645
    1,478
    Apr 3, 2007
    Indeed, such a system should give us pause, as it raises the possibility of the algorithm falling into the hands of special interest parties. However, it should be noted that the current system openly gives the entire decision to special interest parties.

    I think gerrymandering is one of the most issues we need to address. I could never think of rule by which to do it, but @OklahomaGator’s idea of minimizing circumference is an interesting one. We could also have a decision making body that includes members of the major parties. While neither of those seem like perfect ways to guard the henhouse, they both seem to me to be superior to the current system of asking the wolves to do it.
     
  16. OklahomaGator

    OklahomaGator Jedi Administrator Moderator VIP Member

    124,076
    164,221
    116,973
    Apr 3, 2007
    It wasn't drawn to give any one party an advantage. Isn't that what we want?
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Like Like x 1
  17. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

    17,619
    2,864
    1,618
    Apr 3, 2007
    Efficiency gap is the proposed discernible standard. Not accepted by USSC

    https://www.brennancenter.org/sites...ork/How_the_Efficiency_Gap_Standard_Works.pdf
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  18. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer VIP Member

    18,247
    6,183
    3,213
    Oct 30, 2017
    Yes, but that doesn't in and of itself mean it'll create good maps.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  19. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

    8,954
    882
    2,843
    Apr 16, 2007
    His optimization is “draw me the prettiest map”. I guess it’s better than a political party that’s optimization says “draw me the map that gives me the most control”. But only just.

    The most “free market” one would be “draw me the map that makes the most competitive districts”. That would eliminate a lot of clowns in “safe” seats.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. OklahomaGator

    OklahomaGator Jedi Administrator Moderator VIP Member

    124,076
    164,221
    116,973
    Apr 3, 2007
    What is your definition of a good map?

    My definition would be one that doesn't give either party an advantage in that district. When you only look at population and disregard race, religion, sex, and other factors it makes for fairer districts.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Winner Winner x 2