Bathroom controversy

Hate crime seems aggressive.

 

Agree, but I thought this person complained that he wanted a new bathroom.

 

I read the article you posted when you posted it. I didn't see any mention of Mangual changing in her shower stall. I didn't see anything about gospel music, either. I did note that the article only asked Mangual what happened, so I'm taking the relayed facts with a grain of salt (the exact same position I would take if the article only had comments/perspective from Rivera).

But my comment was tongue-in-cheek and did make assumptions. I stand by the latter half of that comment that filming in a women's locker room as a transgender woman is absolutely going to escalate tensions with someone who's already suspicious of your motivations being in that space. And the video comes across to me as specifically antagonistic and as though Mangual was escalating the situation as opposed to "just minding her business," as she seems to be now alleging.

 

I think the test for enforcement comes with exposure. Once your junk is out, you fail the test.

 

Lol, If you met her you would understand. She’s really an amazing person. And I have a 25 year data set of our friendship to work from.

 

Well there are a few things at work, first, for along time, the public sphere was essentially for men, so there wasn't really a desire to make separate women facilities. By the Victorian age, there were more women in public, and they were very prudish times, so the closed off separate facilities sort of date to that time. There is a very patriarchal aspect to strictly policing public facilities on gendered lines, and it reflects a sort of prudishness in the culture, with the underlying fear that every man is basically a sex pervert and women need to be shielded from that. But that is the subtext, now people will fall back on the comfort argument, though I cant say that's necessarily what I experience in a public facility.

 

I've heard you talk about the losing side of an argument before. Almost as if that should decide a position.

This might be a time for that. Even most liberal posters here disagree with you.

 

People are going to be skeptical when the baseless claim perfectly matches a prank that was played on some older folks by younger folks and then rapidly spread falsely over and over again. I mean, why is it always a cat in this story? Never a dog, horse, guinea pig, etc.? A fair number of well-meaning older people fell for this stuff, in addition to those that are not as well-meaning.

 

Their reasoning is irrelevant.
Male junk shouldn't be out on display in a womens locker room

Period.
Full stop.

 

You also have to consider whether a woman feels comfortable being partially or fully naked around someone with a penis and what having someone in their locker room means for them.
And I agree, there’s no perfect scenario, and anyone with a heart shouldn’t be demonizing trans folks. But at some point, it comes to “what has the lowest overall societal impact?” as the answer.
Jmo.

 

One thing she seems amazing at is getting you to believe some made up shit

 

Pretty weak troll.

 

It seems to me if we are going to be ok with trans women with junk walking around bathrooms and locker room, then there really is no need and no point for male female separation of such facilities at all.

 

I think most of us agree as ADULTS we can navigate whatever rules and or decisions come to be, like it or not. My largest concern in all of this are children. Not because Trans people are perverts or pedophiles. But are our children ( and yes I mean school or relative age) mentally ready for this reality while at school or in a unsupervised setting? Or is the reality we will be forced to make it the norm? and should we?

 

No need to enforce if you keep the equipment put away.

 

The filming stuff seems to be an unfortunate reality today where whenever people get into an altercation, somebody's first instinct is to film it. Probably not the dumbest idea normally because you don't have to worry about the she said/she said stuff with the cops, but it's a bad idea to do it in a bathroom.

As for the changing in the stall, maybe I inferred it:
Video shows the moment a trans female MTA bus driver claims she was attacked in women's locker room | Daily Mail Online
Nana Mangual, who identifies as female but was born biologically male, videoed the alleged assault as she addressed fellow driver, Sonia Rivera, who had been shouting at her through the door of a bathroom stall while on shift at a Bronx bus depot.

Mangual claimed Rivera berated her for listening to music in the shower before telling her she was in the wrong changing room. Mangual then filmed Rivera - who appeared to be adjusting her pants in the mirror before she realized she was on camera - slapping the phone from Mangual's hand.

Transgender MTA bus driver speaks out after alleged assault by co-worker in women's locker room
Mangual said the alleged assault happened after she took a shower and began to get dressed, according to PIX 11. She said Rivera allegedly yelled at her to turn down the gospel music she was playing as the situation further devolved.
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Daily Mail says Rivera started yelling at Mangual while Mangual was in the shower stall listening to music. New York Post says that Mangual said she took a shower and began to get dressed when Rivera yelled at her to turn down the gospel music. If you put the two together, it would support that Mangual was in the shower stall getting dressed. I haven't seen anything that claims Mangual emerged naked from the stall. Of course, as you pointed out, this is her side of the story.

 

It sounds like the charges are likely going to be dropped. I'd seek an alternative to prosecution here if I was the ADA. Doesn't seem like the sort of case where a person deserves a conviction and jail time.

 

Who walks around a public bathroom with their junk out? In a men's bathroom, you walk up to the urinal or into the stall, do your business, wash your hands (hopefully), and then leave. In women's bathrooms, you go into the stall and do your business. Locker rooms can be different. But in locker rooms where the trans person is able to make use of individual changing stations or showers (that keeps them from being naked in front of other women), I don't see the same issue.

 

Don't care.

 

If safety and comfort of children are the concern, there should probably be no shared school locker rooms or bathrooms. The trans panic was not a thing when I was in school, but plenty of messed up stuff happened in locker rooms, not to mention the more "normal" teasing and bullying. I doubt a lot of kids were "ready" for that, but that was the norm. I think its a little selective what we decide are the norms, its not like kids arent experiencing things that would upset their parents as it is, and its been that way for a long time. Back in the day you were told to suck it up, that used to be what people would tell you, now if you say that, people are like "what if it was your kid." People talk about the softening of the culture, well this sort of stuff is part and parcel of that along with the other stuff that people complain about like oversensitivity in the culture, participation trophies, etc.