The Left is terrified of DeSantis and wants Trump for the nominee: Change my mind

You can disagree with someone's lifestyle and still love them!

 

Haley would be a good candidate. She has a good ‘practical’ vibe to her.

 

I think we need to go through a scenario to test your definition of bigotry, so we are at least on the same page as to what we mean by the word "bigotry."

A father has two twin daughters. Both of them are in college. One is sleeping with a different guy every single week. There is nothing illegal going on, but her father finds out about his daughter's promiscuity. He is quite firm in his disapproval of her lifestyle. Her father does not disown her. Her father does not seek retribution in any way. The father does not react with any kind of financial retribution. No invitations to come home for the holidays are revoked. She is welcome to come home and visit. Her twin sister has not chosen to live a promiscuous lifestyle, but the father treats the promiscuous daughter like her twin sister in every way, except he is quite clear that he disapproves of her promiscuous lifestyle.

Is her father a bigot?

 

Well, he is kind of a sanctimonious dick for sure if he is like "you can come to Christmas but I still think you are a slut." Seems like everything you guys hate about liberals too, "look how tolerant I am even though I look down on you."

 

But a good candidate on either side hasn't been available since 2012. Both sides are putting out terrible candidates.

 

I think the problem is the need to decide who is and who isn't a bigot. As though once that label is attached is attached to someone you can now put him in the bad guy file.
Things are a lot more nuanced than that. 'Bigot' 'racist' etc. are simply you are or you aren't.
The labels just cloud the discussion.

 

Here is a question to ponder. Every religion has principles, commandments, laws, teachings, etc. These things are some of the unique qualifiers of some religions that make them different from other religions. People outside of a religion who fail to practice these things are often considered to be doing something bad/wrong/sinful/evil/etc in that religion. In many religions there is a future judgment of some kind that rewards those who lived by the principles, commandments, laws, and teachings. Also, there is punishment for those who failed to live by the principles, commandments, laws, and teachings.

My question for you this: Is a simple belief in the existence of a moral principle grounds for bigotry? Or is it the belief that there is a future judgment for failing to live by a set of moral principles that constitutes bigotry?

So, if I believe in the moral principle of bowing down to pray and face Mecca 5 times per day does that make me a bigot? Or do I have to go a step further than that and threaten fire and brimstone to be a bigot? Or is it something else?

 

As with the word "discrimination," there are different definitions and connotations of the words "bigot" and "bigotry." In its broadest sense, bigotry can refer to any obstinate devotion to one's own opinions. More narrowly, it can describe hatred, ignorance, or adverse treatment against people or groups based upon their immutable or inherent traits, such as race or ethnicity.

Religious belief is an interesting category because while religious affiliation is a belief or opinion, we tend to afford it special treatment relative to other beliefs and opinions. There is also the issue of interpretation given that there are wide differences of opinions even within the same religions.

 

I think the bigotry and prejudices preceded the religious codification of these so-called "moral principles" they are based on.

 

No, he's not a bigot. He disapproves of her individual actions/choices. That to me is different then treating an entire group of people differently because of an inherent characteristic (being LGBTQ).

 

If Chick-Fil-A managers let sinners eat their food and work in their company, despite disagreeing with their lifestyle, then we should give Chick-Fil-A the benefit of the doubt? That sounds good to me.

 

I guess my best answer is that if your religious belief teaches hatred or intolerance towards others, I believe you are distorting a religious precept to support a bigoted agenda. By way of example, Jesus had beautiful teachings, but none of them that I am aware of were intolerance. Just the opposite.

 

There seem to be two issues here. The first is you are quite confident that a person is LGBTQ as an "inherent characteristic." What makes you so confident that this is true? Do we have scientific proof of a genetic mechanism for each different scenario in the acronym?

Then there is the other issue that Chick-Fil-A has treated LGBTQ people differently. In what ways has Chick-Fil-A treated LGBTQ people differently?

 

I'm not going down that first rabbit hole since safe to say no matter what either of us dig up we're not going to see eye to eye.

I was also just making the point more generally about Christianity and not specific to CFA, but to answer your question I'm not aware of anything that CFA has done as far as a corporate policy to discriminate. The chairman is fairly outsooken, and I believe they've donated to some anti-LGBTQ organizations, but to me that kind of thing can be overblown.

Also, for the record, CFA is delicious and I'm in the Polynesian sauce camp.

 

Wait, you arent sure if sexuality is an inherent human characteristic?

 

Imagine that.

 

Do you believe that you chose your sexual orientation? If it's not inherent and it's not a choice, what do you consider it?

 

Wise choice. I would not want to be forced to defend that proposition with evidence either. I think many people have a misplaced confidence here that is not properly calibrated by the evidence. It is possible to make a decent argument, but a decent argument is not enough. It has to be on the level of certainty that we have in the hard sciences to really provide the foundation that is necessary to conclude anyone who disagrees is a bigot. The lack of scientific understanding we have really shows who has pre-judged who in this scenario.

Glad we are on the same page regarding Chick-Fil-A then.

 

Please do not bother. That mind is already made up. All the word salad and dancing doesn't change the facts. I can see where it is headed. If I don't act this way then I'll go to hell too! I must fight sin wherever it is(even though I only choose specific sins to fight not all of them).

 

You should have asked him to prove with science that he was straight