Patriot wasn't doing so well in KSA but Ukrainian gunners seem to be much better operators or ??? Military expert says Ukrainian anti-aircraft gunners ‘rescued the reputation’ of Patriot system The Americans thought for a long time, and they were in two minds: to give us the Patriot or not. It turns out that our anti-aircraft gunners, with a short training course, squeezed out of the Patriot literally something that the Americans themselves did not even realize.” In the early hours of May 16, the Air Defense Forces shot down six Kinzhal missiles fired from six MiG-31K aircraft. On May 6, Ukrainian Air Force Commander Mykola Oleshchuk confirmed that Ukraine had shot down a Russian Kinzhal airborne ballistic missile for the first time near Kyiv in the early hours of May 4. On May 13, AFU Air Force spokesman Yuriy Ihnat said that the Patriot was operating in autonomous mode when it shot down the Russian Kinzhal missile
Not an unknown pattern. The Israelis would routinely make better use of the avionics in our planes, including some modifications. There is no substitute for active battlefield usage as a teacher
Eh, the patriot always sounds great during conflicts, then the not so much during the post-mortem. If you follow this stuff you knew the second they were shipped over that there was gonna be some outlandishly successful claims, but I'd wait till the fog of war clears to judge. Patriot Missiles Are Made in America and Fail Everywhere "But I am deeply skeptical that Patriot has ever intercepted a long-range ballistic missile in combat — at the least, I have yet to see convincing unclassified evidence of a successful Patriot intercept. During the 1991 Gulf War, the public was led to believe the that the Patriot had near-perfect performance, intercepting 45 of 47 Scud missiles. The U.S. Army later revised that estimate down to about 50 percent — and even then, it expressed “higher” confidence in only about one-quarter of the cases. A pesky Congressional Research Service employee noted that if the Army had correctly applied its own assessment methodology consistently, the number would be far lower. (Reportedly that number was one — as in one lousy Scud missile downed.)"
You’ve constantly clarified your position that the War was unnecessary because Ukraine should have instantly capitulated. The Ukrainians disagree with you.
True, they’d still have a semblance of a country and an intact generation of males for refusing to be used as a U.S. gun platform against a country, Russia, that was clearly amenable to negotiations.
I need some clarification on the Patriot “not doing well in Saudi Arabia.” We put them into Saudi as a deterrent to Iran after the missile attacks on Coalition forces in 2020. To the best of my knowledge, Iran never hit KSA with ballistic missiles, therefore not granting any Patriots an opportunity to shoot any down. And the reason we pulled them out is, not because they weren’t working, but rather because it was one of Iran’s demands to restart negotiations for more tribute from the Biden Administration (which is one of the reasons, which we don’t talk about at parties, that KSA hates us right now). But I don’t see how any of that has to do with the Patriot’s operational record in that country.
Great show of Western solidarity in support for Ukraine, which is a harder diplomatic lift than may seem, though Russia seems to do all it can to help motivate unified opposition. At this point, the Ukraine invasion as a way to counter European/NATO integration and continued spread to Eastern Europe looks as well thought out as the Zimmerman telegram G7 summit ends with focus on Ukraine support G7 summit ends with focus on Ukraine support - Tampa Bay Times For more great content like this subscribe to the Tampa Bay Times app here:
I’ll say this about the Zimmerman Telegram: At least it got through to its intended audience. So partial success. Can’t say the same about this “special military operation.”
Russia's Prigozhin says Bakhmut territories captured as promised, will leave zone | Reuters May 21 (Reuters) - The head of Russia's Wagner mercenary group said on Sunday that his forces had captured all the territory in the eastern Ukrainian city of Bakhmut as promised and would leave the conflict zone later this week. "Wagner has made no advances. Wagner today captured no territory. We have captured all the territory we promised to capture, right up to the last centimetre," Yevgeny Prigozhin said in an audio message posted on Telegram messaging app. "As we stated yesterday. We are handing over our positions to (Russia's) Defence Ministry and on the 25th (of May) we are leaving the conflict zone."
Western sources have described Russian efforts as baffonish, incompetent and rudderless. While much of that is true, particularly in the earlier stages, I'm inclined to view that POV with a grain of salt. Some Ukranian battlefield commanders are suggesting Russian forces are adapting and performing better than western press sources indicate. Having said that, Mr "P's" almost daily criticisms of Russian leadership is a bit confusing. While the military maps now show Wagner has essentially taken Bahkmut, the Ukranian flanking maneuvers must be of great concern. It may explain why "P" is stating his forces are clearing out by May 25th.
Ukranian forces are now entrenched just west of Bahkmut on what has been described as more defensible terrain. It will be interesting to see if Ukraine presses the flanking attack home and tries to recapture Bahkmut. While it may be somewhat confusing to us, clearly Bahkmut represents a linchpin in the conflict, for both sides. Me thinks too much blood has been spilt there and irregardless of strategic value, the town has become a rallying point for both sides.
Casualty figures issued by Kiev and then trumpeted from Washington suggested that the Russians were stupidly throwing away the lives of their fighting men by using WWI style human waves of attackers who were decimated by the defenders. Russian lives are cheap was the message. The fact that Russian artillery on site outnumbered and outperformed Ukrainian artillery by a factor of five or seven to one was freely admitted by the Western propagandists as they pleaded for increased supplies to Kiev. They, nonetheless, issued casualty reports for the Russians that inverted the force correlation. It was assumed, obviously with reason, that the public was too lazy or too uninterested to do the arithmetic. MoA - Media And Politicians Throw So Much Bullshit At Us That It Is Difficult To See Through It
It's been suggested that rather than trying to recapture Bahkmut which is essentially lost the Ukrainian strategy may be to encircle the city forcing the Russians to continue to commit troops and equipment to defend the city at a significantly lower cost on the part of Ukraine than would an attempt to recapture lost territory.
Could be. We will have to see how it plays out. Time seems to be increasingly on Ukraine’s side as its military power in the air grows relative to Russia. Provided that is true, then there is no need to hurry whatever they have in mind.
In the context that my most optimistic hopes for Ukraine in February 2022 were to hold out for a few months and cause Russia a few thousand casualties, yes, it is amazing.
Even last fall - I was still in the Russia-will-eventually-get-its-shit-together camp, but that camp is all but dismantled. I'm not saying this thing is over, but we're not seeing signs of improved Russian logistics or tactics.
