Christain megachurch pastor says Trumpsters should use violence to take back America

And yet you did.

 

I did not jump to conclusions about Trump's innocence or guilt. I said lets wait to see the evidence, and lets wait to hear what the charges are before we proclaim he is guilty.

Nonetheless...not going to waste the couple of calories it takes to hit the keyboard to respond to you any further. You are free to believe whatever you want. I'm not wasting my time on you.

 

It is an odd thing to post for somebody who isn't following Trump. Also, I remember you posting in support of several of his 2020 theories (specifically, the camera cases contained ballots one). It is odd behavior from somebody who isn't at least following what Trump says with some level of reverence.

 

He’s a trumper masquerading as a holy man. Incredibly pathetic. Even more so because he seemingly doesn’t realize it.

 

No one said you jumped to conclusions about his innocence or guilt. I said you came to scold us & put us down lest WE might.

Plank posted this on election night 2020, but he's not a Trump fan?!?!?

 

I listen a couple of different podcasts. One guy I have listened to for years talks theology, apologetics, politics, etc. And he was talking about a lot of that stuff before Trump or anyone in the media ever did. He called it way out before anyone was even talking about it in the media that COVID was going to be the pretext for a massive expansion in mail-in voting that would create all kinds of opportunities for election corruption. And this was someone who did not vote for Trump in 2016 FWIW, but he was pushing hard for Trump in 2020.

 

And would you say that this podcaster is a Trump follower/supporter? Was he coming up with the ballots in camera cases-type theories?

 

He has gone back and forth. He did not vote for him in 2016, but he voted for him in 2020. And he is probably more like me in that it is more about the culture of death represented by the Democratic party, and how the DNC agenda represents the destruction of the nation. If you destroy a nation's moral and ethical fiber, a nation's family structure, a nation's children in the womb, and you indoctrinate the children who survive into a godless God-hating ideology, then you are effectively advocating for the destruction of that nation. And now the DNC is going a step further in that destruction of a nation by promoting and celebrating sexual deviancy amongst America's youth and promoting and celebrating bodily mutilation that robs people of motherhood and fatherhood, children and a family. They are basically robbing children of their futures.

 

The guy completely mis-represented the idea exposed in the verse. So if that’s what he said he is very off base.

 

Please don’t compare this pastor who seemingly has no clue what the verse is suggesting with most Christians who do. That’s would like lumping anyone in with the worst examples of a group they have some common characteristics with and saying they are the same.

 

So if you buy all of that, why is violence not justified? Essentially, why would you disagree with this guy? I mean, I could see it if you truly believed that violence was never justified, but we have had multiple threads on issues of self-defense in which the person ended up charged/convicted of some level of unlawful killing and you aren't exactly running to those threads to tell the people that think the killings were justified that killing isn't justified.

This is the problem with going into extremist beliefs. It forces you to make some logically incongruent choices. The extremism convinces you to use the language of extremism, but not the obvious implications of actually believing extremist rhetoric.

 

Welcome to THFSG. That's what is done here.

Nut Picking: the act of picking the most extreme members of a group and pretending they represent the group in order to attack it.

Enjoy your time here at THFSG.

 

didn't you just nut pick?

p.s. If you think this dude is even close to the most extreme, there are 1000s of raped kids that disagree.

 

That's a misuse of the term nutpicking. What it really involves is picking someone that's at the margins of the other side without influence. This pastor was on the board of the Pastors for Trump and gave a benediction at the RNC Convention. He is not removed from the center of power. He is adjacent to it. That is not nutpicking. He is synecdoche

 

Been here a while, I know the game, usually don’t even call it out but every once in a while….

 

Power corrupts
Narcissists love power
Men of god are self appointed not anointed

 

Self-defense is recognized in the Torah, and it is also recognized in the New Testament by Christ. In some instances, self-defense might be justified, and in other instances it might not be justified. I am not going to bother to know the minutiae of every news story where there is controversy about self-defense. If you want to do that, then fine, more power to you. Nonetheless, we have a right to use violent force to prevent our own murder if that is necessary. That is biblical.

As to using violent force against government and when this is permitted...King David gave the death penalty to a man who claimed to kill King Saul in the Old Testament. So, there is one instance where using the sword against government is clearly condemned in the Bible.

Jesus rebuked Peter when Peter took out his sword and cut the ear of the Roman soldier who was there to unjustly arrest Christ. So, Jesus did not approve of Peter's violent resistance towards an evil government that was there to unjustly arrest Jesus. So, there is a 2nd instance where the Bible condemns violent resistance against an unjust government.

Furthermore, the Pharisees were also the ones who did not want to pay high oppressive taxes to an evil oppressive government, and Jesus shocked them by saying render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's. So, there is a 3rd instance where resisting and disobeying evil government is condemned by Christ. So, Jesus did not even approve of disobeying an evil government by refusing to pay taxes.

Evil oppressive governments will rise to punish the evil people they rule over. The world has rejected Christ, and the world has rejected God...so God rightly and justly punishes them by giving them evil rulers since they reject the government of the good God who rules over them.

Nonetheless, evil oppressive governments must be disobeyed when the government tells you to disobey God. The story of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego illustrates this as well. The government told them to bow down to an idol, and they would not worship another God. And God saved and protected them because of their faithfulness of choosing not to bow down.

The apostles disobeyed the government when they were told not to preach the gospel. The apostles told the government that they must obey God rather than men, and God blessed the ministry of the Apostles.

Moses' mother disobeyed the government when the government demanded that all Hebrew newborn sons be killed. So, protecting one's own family from murder is grounds for disobedience to the government.

So, there are instances where disobeying evil government is obedience to God, and there are other instances where disobeying evil government is disobedience to God.

But a final consideration to think about regarding your question...and I imagine you will not like this...but if you know your Bible nations are judged because of their sins. People who pay the full price for their sins are destroyed forever body, soul, and spirit. That is the price of rejecting God and hardening one's heart. Idolatry, sexual immorality, rebellion, pride, gossip, slander, covetousness, blasphemy, murder, hatred, lovelessness...the works of darkness...have taken different forms at different times in different cultures throughout human history. People and nations who don't repent of these things are destined for destruction. It is God's choice when and how he brings that about, and that destruction is the justice of God against sin.

It is also God's choice whether He intervenes and brings revival on a people and a nation who are hellbent on their own destruction.

The Christian should know that sin and its consequences in this world will be tremendous. Nations and people will crumble and be ruined by their sins because they refused to give thanks and worship God. And I fully expect to see American civilization crumble under judgement and descend into greater and greater civilizational chaos lest there is a widespread national repentance. But it is not hopeless. Rebellion and violence is not the answer. Looking up to heaven and knowing Christ sits at the right hand of God is the answer. He watches out for His people as the Good Shepherd. And He works to bring about salvation, reviving people from their spiritually dead condition, calling people to Himself in the midst of a perverse and corrupt generation. God is good. He is in control. He is faithful. Trusting God and having faith is the answer. Not violent rebellion.