Boy turns into girl, then rapes friend…going to male prison

You don't see how associating things like military work with masculinity and masculinity with manhood is a viewpoint adverse to the feminist movement?

People in the trans community use masculinity to define manhood and femininity to define womanhood. But if masculinity defines manhood and femininity defies womanhood, then that makes tomboys men and stay-at-home dads women. But if any masculine tendency infers manhood, and military work is inherently masculine, then by definition women cannot do military work.

You don't see how this contradicts the positions of the feminist movement?

At some point "man" and "woman" needs to be confined to something. But if you support both the traditional feminism and transgender standard for what they are, they really don't mean anything. Anybody can be anything regardless of what characteristics they have and the terms become completely useless.

 

Why?

Not a gotcha, but I'm trying to lead you as to why government should have a role here, or at minimum government having a role here isn't a problem.

 

One of the unwritten but inviolable rules of dudedom.

 

I would say this is generally the aim of 'feminism' across all its strains, the end of a gendered division of labor and patriarchy. Lots of women dont wear makeup or do particularly feminine things, I don't think the term has become useless. Does man or woman have to invoke certain ideas or behaviors to mean something? Dont you argue that its all about how you were born ... to you woman only means someone with a vagina, you've limited it to biological terms. How useful is that? Doesn't tell me anything other than what genitals someone was born with.

 

Incredibly actually.

To the medical field, for people seeking a mate to have children with, etc.

If a woman can literally be anyone if that person so desires, then the term ceases to mean anything. A woman can be masculine, feminine, have a penis, have a vagina, have any interests, any tendencies, any behavior, any personality. Someone you can't see or hear writes and tells you they're a "woman" you know literally nothing about them.

At least my way, you know what they were born with between their legs.

 

If someone I cant see/hear tells me they are a woman as it stands I know nothing about them either, even with "your way." How can I know what they were born with unless they show/tell me?

 

Just to lighten the mood on a Friday.
The funniest music video I've seen since Wheeler Walker Jr. came on the scene (actually pre-dates WWJ) is by a comedian rapper name Lil Dicky. "Ex-Boyfriend" has a whole verse on dudes in the bathroom that is some funny stuff. Video is hilarious. I'd link it but it is NSFW for sure. He also has a show on FX called "Dave" that is funny too.

 

To follow up on some comments above, I have wondered how most people would define masculine and feminine other than to beg the question with a circular definition.

The top Merriam Webster definition of masculine says that it is "considered to be characteristic of men/stereotypically masculine traits/characteristics." But what are those specific traits? Does whether they are positive or negative affect the extent to which we want to validate them?

Men are certainly more homicidal than women, for example, but many push back when "toxic" male traits are pointed out. They would prefer to note men being the traditional breadwinners, being physically strong, or being stoic.

I find it interesting when men (usually socially conservative men) complain about men being feminized (it never applies to the man speaking of course) or they mock other men who they believe aren't sufficiently masculine. It could be Tucker with his rants or testicle tanning spot or Matt Walsh saying that hockey can't be fully manly because they use skates and so do figure skaters. I really doubt hockey players are looking to Matt Walsh to ensure their man card is safe, but he does have a nice beard for whatever that's worth.

Is it masculine for men to sit around worrying about whether they're manly enough? Seems incel adjacent to me, but I'm not the arbiter of any of this stuff either. I mean, who gets to decide what's sufficiently manly and what isn't, particularly in this day and age?

 

Yes, this whole debate supposes that those terms are somehow already well defined and historically stable, when they are not. The meanings of those things have evolved over time, and they have never been associated purely with biological meaning. To reduce man or woman to mean only what genitals you have would in fact be a completely new way of defining those things in terms of tradition or precedent.

 

I did not get a Christian education. I went to bat with all of the non-Christians in that class...kind of like I do here. I didn't change their minds, but a couple of homosexual atheists in the class told me they really enjoyed discussing the issues with me. They didn't agree, but there was a mutual respect. It was very civil.

The class had three units:

1. Science vs. Religion
2. Religion vs. Humanism
3. Science vs. Humanism.

The professor decided not to teach the class. He simply picked topics for us to debate. We had to read two articles for every debate, one representing the best of each side of the debate. Then we would duke it out and debate each other. One of the science vs. humanism topics was related to academic research in the area of race, and whether all research about race should be published or not. Basically, should political correctness/humanistic considerations constrain the publications of academic research was one of the topics. The class was an exercise in research for him. He just wanted to see how college students think about different issues. So, I was part of that sample of students he studied. I never saw the conclusions to the study, and I am not sure if I skewed his study or not.

 

Good point, I think. No trans issue has impacted my family directly, so why worry? None of us lost our job because a pipeline was shut down, either; although folks in my town did when the steel pipe order was cancelled. I don’t personally know anyone that has died in a choke hold due to poor LE decisions or an over zealous subway rider’s actions. And the price of eggs and gasohol don’t make a dent in my resources, so yea, I guess that bad things happening having not changed circumstances within my circle of influence means that I don’t need to worry about them. Do you smell what the Cron is cooking? BTW re: your store example, I agree; live and let live.

 

6 pack on a dick

 

By telling you they're a woman/man.

 

That’s how it was in my family in the early 60s when Mom had three boys under 8 and Dad was on TDY.

 

Traits associated with traditional masculinity: strength, courage, independence, leadership, and assertiveness.

Traits associated with traditional femininity: nurturance, sensitivity, sweetness, supportiveness, gentleness, warmth, passivity, cooperativeness, expressiveness, modesty, humility, empathy, affection, tenderness, and being emotional, kind, helpful, devoted, and understanding.

I would agree women can embody masculine characteristics and men can embody feminine characteristics. But once you start identifying men based on masculine characteristics or interests and women by feminine characteristics, that logic leads you to the conclusion that all soldiers and all CEOs are men, even if some have vaginas, or all soldiers and CEOs should be men. And if you deny that conclusion, but accept the transgender standard that men and women are defined by their masculine and feminine characteristics respectively, then your standard is nonsensical. It's sometimes based on masculinity/femininity, sometimes it's based on biology, sometimes it's just based on feelings. It can mean anything. And if it can mean anything, it tells you absolutely nothing.

 

1. No it wouldn't. Even in today's day and age, how do people know what gender their baby is for a gender reveal before it's even born? How does a doctor determine sex of the baby?
2. I never took you for someone who values tradition.

 

You could just make everything a certain color like "pink" at a gender reveal and you wouldn't have to tell anyone the sex or say anything, why is that? That tells me gender has associations beyond simply what equipment people are born with.

 

Yeah, but what is the deciding factor at a gender reveal?

Does the junk determine the color used to communicate the gender or does the color decide the gender for the child?

Are "penis-bearing individuals" who like the color pink women?

 

Well yeah, at birth that's pretty much all there is right? We come into the world naked, not wearing dresses or playing with toy soldiers, socialized into gender identities.

 

Okay, so let's say the first real action the baby with a penis takes is choosing a pink shirt over a blue shirt. Does that make the baby a girl? Is it 50/50? How exactly does the calculus work?