Boy turns into girl, then rapes friend…going to male prison

I took a philosophy class in college, and we debated the topic of whether publishing studies like that was considered ethical or not. And this was not a Christian class by any means. There are a lot of people out there who would support the suppression of such a study if it existed out of fear that it would lead to greater discrimination towards people who self-identify as trans. Political correctness probably defeats such a study from being initiated in most academic peer-reviewed settings, and it definitely prevents such a study from being published if it reaches a politically incorrect conclusion. I think you are being unrealistically optimistic if you think the publication of such a study would not face fierce political opposition in the scientific community in some scenarios. There would be no issue at all if it reached the conclusion that rape occurs at the same proportion in the trans population as it occurs in the general population. Such a study would be proclaimed and shouted from the rooftops. If it reached the conclusion that rape occurs at a higher proportion in the trans population than it occurs in the general population...such a study would face fierce ideological opposition. Pressure would be exerted in the academic world to suppress its publication in academic journals and/or to dismiss its claims. Science would be forced to bow to politics and ideological conformity.

 

Nice word salad you have there.

 

Well, he might think he's a woman... but he's going to be treated like a street "ho" in that prison.

 

I know it sounds funny coming from me, but I'm dead serious.

 

eat your bacon like the rest of us do.

 

What I mean is they're using historic application of gender roles and treating it as support that trangenderism has generally been this historically mainstream and normal thing.

In the modern context, we're using things that make you "feel" like a woman. And what makes you "feel" like a woman? You like makeup, flowers, dolls, and Taylor Swift. Now, I would agree that's all nonsense, but whether you realize it or not, you're now making associations that certain interests and behaviors are tied to gender which is directly adverse to traditional feminist goals.

Are there some modern feminists who use this exact argument in favor of normalizing transgenderism? Yes. But their position is logically incoherent. Abolish gender roles for them, but use it as a justification for trans people to define womanhood or manhood.

 

Oh please tell us more about the “philosophy” class you took at whatever Christian college you went to.

 

I actually agree with you on this. Beyond true gender dysphoria, which is a real psychiatric condition, I struggle a bit with what transgender means. These notions of gender are based upon gender stereotypes. For decades with the feminist movement we’ve tried to move away from gender stereotypes. A girl can like sports, wear pants, like cars, not dolls, etc, and that’s ok. Boys don’t have to adhere to their stereotypes either.

But now, if you don’t adhere to the stereotype, then it is presumed you are the opposite gender, regardless of biological sex. It also muddies the waters for people who may actually be gay, and decide they are actually transgender.

Having said all that, regardless, I’m pretty live and let live, and people can identify with whatever they want. I draw the line at some sports, and think the medical community (not government ) may need to re-examine some standards of care for minors. But this is not a political issue for me. I don’t know why lawmakers need to be involved in this at all.

 

By and large I think you are correct. There is a different side to the argument though. A study is a set of data. It doesn’t necessarily prove a point even if the outcome is statistically significant. The issue is such a study can be used in bad faith by bad actors.

While I see no reason that it would be the case, suppose a study found rape was higher among those who identify as transgender. Is that because they are transgender? Or is it some other factor, perhaps a higher degree of underlying mental illness. He danger becomes one of profiling. If you look middle eastern, is it fair that you have to go through the TSA line every time? If you are an innocent black young man, is it fair that the police interrogate you or frisk you because you look “suspicious”?

It’s a delicate balance. While I agree scientific knowledge and information should generally be freely available, regardless of outcome, it’s not out of the question to ponder the social impact of such information.

 

Liking dolls, makeup or feeling feminine isn’t a gender role, you’re using the term incorrectly. Those are expressions not rolls. A gender role is that women are nurturers suited for child care rather than logical fields like science because men are more logical. Gender roles try to enforce a gendered division of labor, which pretty much all strains of feminism oppose. Moreover, I dont think feminists of any stripe argue that expressions of femininity should be or are exclusive to women, or that "traditionally" masculine expressions are only for men. Ultimately whatever you think you are arguing here, the reality is we still live in a society where gender differences are important to people, in practical terms what you are seeing is an attempt to accommodate that reality while still trying to live on your own terms, not create a new ideal one and force others into accepting it. Just like an anti-capitalist still has to go to work to pay the bills in a capitalist economy. You cant just pretend to live in the world you want to exist and make it so.

 

I think the problem here is that people confuse being trans with people who are just non-conforming or non-binary, decide they want to use different pro-nouns etc. There is definitely some overlap in those groups, but there are plenty of people who will never transition that will just take up gendered expressions not associated with the sex they were born. On the other hand there are people who are trans that very much want to conform to all the gendered associations with whatever gender they identify with. If gender is a spectrum, then people are just falling in on some part of that spectrum, whether they are trans, non-binary/conforming or cis.

 

You don't speak for the masses, just yourself. I'm hardly an expert on the subject either and dont pretend to be, just someone who's done a modicum of reading by virtue of having a humanities background, where others clearly haven't beyond some news articles.

 

I.e. making stuff up

 

Call it whatever you want. If you associate certain behaviors and interests with certain genders, you are perpetuating gender stereotypes which is an adverse goal to the traditional feminist movement.

Basically, if you associate nurturing with womanhood but aggression with manhood, is it too far of a stretch that you associate say nursing with womanhood or military work with manhood? You don't see how these views contradict traditional feminism?

The point was not about the term "gender roles." If I misused the term, so be it. My bad.

 

I don't, if you think of gender as a spectrum, some people are going to be very feminine and want to do child care, but some might want to do that after they served in the military. Some people will be very masculine yet stay at home with the children while their spouse earns more money going to work. The idea is that no gendered expression traps you into living a certain way or into a certain kind of work, or that a masculine person is looked down on for doing child care or a feminine person looked down on for doing industrial labor.

 

Never tried to explain that or even used those words on this thread, there you go making things up again