Verdict reached in the Carroll-Trump case (liable for defamation and lesser battery charge)

Him in prison.

 

Correct. During jury selection I get the potential jurors to visualize a football field with the Plaintiff on one side of the 50 yard line and the defendant on the other. All Plaintiff has to do is move the ball one yard to prevail. MUCH lower of an evidentiary standard than criminal cases.

 

if he shoved his fingers up in your wife that still wouldn't impact his ability to run the country so you would still vote for him? really? the man sexually assaulted her and it is a pattern with him and you're okay with that because ...go team?? really? cmon man

 

more like an opportunity to put the facts before the court after the rumor had been manipulated in the court of public opinion. the coin is just the cherry on the top

 

New York's statutory definitions of sexual abuse. Note: I do not know what has been changed, added or repealed since the time of the incident.:

"S 130.55 Sexual abuse in the third degree.
A person is guilty of sexual abuse in the third degree when he or she
subjects another person to sexual contact without the latter`s consent;
except that in any prosecution under this section, it is an affirmative
defense that (a) such other person`s lack of consent was due solely to
incapacity to consent by reason of being less than seventeen years old,
and (b) such other person was more than fourteen years old, and (c) the
defendant was less than five years older than such other person.
Sexual abuse in the third degree is a class B misdemeanor.

S 130.60 Sexual abuse in the second degree.
A person is guilty of sexual abuse in the second degree when he or she
subjects another person to sexual contact and when such other person is:
1. Incapable of consent by reason of some factor other than being less
than seventeen years old; or
2. Less than fourteen years old.
Sexual abuse in the second degree is a class A misdemeanor.

S 130.65 Sexual abuse in the first degree.
A person is guilty of sexual abuse in the first degree when he or she
subjects another person to sexual contact:
1. By forcible compulsion; or
2. When the other person is incapable of consent by reason of being
physically helpless; or
3. When the other person is less than eleven years old; or
4. When the other person is less than thirteen years old and the actor
is twenty-one years old or older.
Sexual abuse in the first degree is a class D felony."

New York's statutory definition of rape:

"S 130.25 Rape in the third degree.
A person is guilty of rape in the third degree when:
1. He or she engages in sexual intercourse with another person who is
incapable of consent by reason of some factor other than being less than
seventeen years old;
2. Being twenty-one years old or more, he or she engages in sexual
intercourse with another person less than seventeen years old; or
3. He or she engages in sexual intercourse with another person without
such person`s consent where such lack of consent is by reason of some
factor other than incapacity to consent.
Rape in the third degree is a class E felony.

S 130.30 Rape in the second degree.
A person is guilty of rape in the second degree when:
1. being eighteen years old or more, he or she engages in sexual
intercourse with another person less than fifteen years old; or
2. he or she engages in sexual intercourse with another person who is
incapable of consent by reason of being mentally disabled or mentally
incapacitated.
It shall be an affirmative defense to the crime of rape in the second
degree as defined in subdivision one of this section that the defendant
was less than four years older than the victim at the time of the act.
Rape in the second degree is a class D felony.

S 130.35 Rape in the first degree.
A person is guilty of rape in the first degree when he or she engages
in sexual intercourse with another person:
1. By forcible compulsion; or
2. Who is incapable of consent by reason of being physically helpless;
or
3. Who is less than eleven years old; or
4. Who is less than thirteen years old and the actor is eighteen years
old or more.
Rape in the first degree is a class B felony."

S 130.00 Sex offenses; definitions of terms. (Definition of sexual intercourse only.)
The following definitions are applicable to this article:
1. "Sexual intercourse" has its ordinary meaning and occurs upon any
penetration, however slight.
...
Article 130 | New York Penal Law | Sex Offenses | NYS Laws

 

Your huge line doesn't exist. Each state is free to define a crime as its legislature wishes. Florida doesn't have a crime named "rape." In Florida's statutory scheme, the phrase is "sexual battery." Relevant part:

FS 794.011 (1)(j):

“Sexual battery” means oral, anal, or female genital penetration by, or union with, the sexual organ of another or the anal or female genital penetration of another by any other object; however, sexual battery does not include an act done for a bona fide medical purpose.

Florida Jury Instruction 11.4:
“Union” means contact.

So in Florida, if you touch a woman's female genitalia without consent, you have sexually battered her just as if you had had full blown intercourse without consent.

 

And Donald Trump. Who bragged about it and is now found by a jury as having done it.

 

Also notable that the jury verdict listed the options of (1) rape; (2) sexual abuse; and (3) forcible touching. The jury picked the middle finding. Not rape but more than forcible touching. Obviously much more than an unwanted advance or merely being "un-gentlemanly." As others have noted, the fact that the jury didn't just pick the worst option is probably going to be cited on appeal to show that the jury was discerning and didn't simply make their findings out of political animosity to Trump, as he's claiming.

 

As I read the law, rape in NY involves penis in vagina penetration. Without PIV, no rape conviction, but as stated above, a person can be convicted of sexual abuse and/or forcible touching. Just speculating, but my guess is the jury found Trump couldn't be found guilty of rape in the civil trial because the other witnesses only testified to sexual abuse and forcible touching. And Trump's own deposition did mention PIV, only grabbing them by the pussy.

If you think this makes what Trump did was ok, because the jury couldn't find evidence that Trump didn't keep it in his pants, that's quite the hill to die on. He sexually assaulted women, multiple women, and in many states, even without PIV contact, that would make Trump a rapist.

 

I would call that rape, but do you know whether he did that?

 

A lot of you guys really can't read.

They found that he battered her which could be anything from an unwanted hug to forced sodomy.
"Liable for battery" doesn't really tell you a whole lot.

 

Do we know whether he shoved his fingers up the accuser's you know what?

He didn't have to go that far to satisfy a battery claim.

 

Completely wrong. The blanks for forcibly touched her were left unchecked per the verdict form's directions. The jury found he "sexually abused" her. I don't know about in your neck of the woods, but that's not a hug.
Read the full jury verdict form from the E. Jean Carroll defamation trial

 

And if that was the line here, this would be different, I would call that rape.

According to NPR, however, this was the standard:

"Anything from a gentle but unwanted peck on the cheek to stabbing somebody with a knife could be battery for purposes of a civil case like this one"

https://www.npr.org/2023/05/09/1174... YORK — A federal jury,store in the mid-1990s.

 

Define "sexually abused."

I'm not saying this is good, far from it, but there's clearly some line-drawing going on here. And I want to know exactly what these things mean.

The jury found that there was not enough evidence to support that he raped her, but there was evidence of worse conduct than "forcible touching."

They clearly thought he was somewhere in the middle, and my question is what is the range of that middle? The worst it can be and the best it can be.

EDIT: I saw that you posted it. Thanks.

A couple more questions:
1. Are the criminal and civil definitions for sexual abuse in New York the same?
2. If so which variant did the jury find him liable for?

 

I really regret opening this thread.

 

It was pretty predictable. Those prone to some very crazy forms of cognitive dissonance are busy trying to explain to themselves how they support Trump, who just was found by a jury to have sexually abused somebody, while not viewing themselves as the type of people who would do that. It should be some epic examples of that behavior.

 

When only 5/6th's was required of this 12 person jury, it came back - after days and days of testimony - unanimously and in 3 hours! As a former attorney who tried more cases than I can remember, that was record time....and not a single holdout. For Trump and others to disparage the jury in our time-honored justice system tells us all we need to know about Trump and his apologists. I don't know how to describe them, but "loyal Americans", i.e., those who respect our justice system, would not be one way.
NOTE: In the aftermath of the many cases where blacks were railroaded - especially in the South where the system clearly failed that class of defendants - I venture to say the type people who support Trump said nary a word in protest. Hypocrites is what they are!

 

He was NOT convicted of rape, that is a straight up LIE.. In fact this was not even a criminal trial.