Back to the OP, when I read Tampajack saying Kugel could be our "PG," I didn't take it literally as him starting at the one. I took it more as initiating our half-court actions, especially out of the spread ball screen and rapid ball screen stuff. Kugel is really a terrific passer. His assists weren't terribly high because we missed so many bunnies off his passes into the paint, not to mention dropped a bunch of them (he throws the ball hard), and he was also way too risky with the ball early in the season. He cut down on that in conference play (23 turnovers in 17 conference games, largely against better defenses, and 25 turnovers in 15 non-conference games). Now that so much about hoops has become--for better or worse--"positionless" in terms of traditional position types, I think for the 1-3 it really comes down to how you play off ball vs. on ball. From what I can tell, while Clayton is solid on the ball (can get to the rum, doesn't turn the ball over), he is exceptionally good off the ball (as a cutter and as a catch-and-shoot guy). Conversely, while Kugel has also show his ability to cut and spot up, he is much better on the ball, because he attacks the paint off the bounce so well, is super and physical around the rim, and has terrific vision. Dude shot over 58% on twos in conference play--that's phenomenal for a guard. I think those two will play very well off each other. I suspect Golden's bigger concern is what happens when one (or both) of them sits. Missing on Perry and Cain, losing Bonham, passing on Bynum, among others, has left us with only four players at the 1-3 (I just don't see Haugh or Jarvis playing the wing with any regularity). Not sure where that leaves us. Thomas announces 5/14. If he enrolls in fall, then that helps. He has a very smooth, developed game for a prep. Leaving high school early and being able to contribute isn't easy, though. A few guys still on the board, but with three scholarships available, we need at least one primary ballhandler type who can create offense and at least one longer wing who can defend the two and three. Of course, shooting is always a plus.
I agree he should be in the rotation, but where is the real question. I assume he will be starting at the three, but I wonder if that is really our best lineup. As far as Kugel creating shots for other players, of course he will, but I don’t think that is what his main benefit to this team will be. Clayton should be the main opportunity creator for the team unless something weird happens.
A big caveat on my part is that I only saw Clayton play once, and that was against UConn. Clayton did not look athletic enough to me to get into the paint and create on a consistent basis. Last season, Kugel got into the paint and drew defenders pretty much at will. Plus, he had the court vision to find teammates to pass to. He has to tighten his handle, especially when the 2nd set of hands helps out on defense, but I can see him as an NBA point guard. So, why not a college point guard? I don’t really care who brings the ball up court, although it needs to be someone who gets the ball up court effortlessly and can lead fast breaks without committing turnovers. I intend to watch a couple more Iona games, so I might change my thinking. The Gators also clearly need at least one more guard who preferably can play the point if necessary. I am fine with an 11-man scholarship roster.
Excellent thread @murphree_hall but......... My second year of college 1974 at Florida in front of my dorm, Murphree Hall......
You are right he was and then had jets with the ball on the break. He wasn't quite as good a rebounder as Clifford Lett, but then Clifford had about 4 inches on Drew.
I never intended anyone to think that Pippen, Walton or Noah were point guards. What I am saying is that you can run an offense and even a half court offense without a traditional point guard. Maybe the most well known example of a half court offense without needing a traditional PG is the triange offense which is what those great Bulls teams ran very often. I am not advocating that we try to run that offense with a group of guys that have just gotten to campus and I think that we will need somebody that can be a traditional PG. That offense takes a long time to install much like the offense that BD ran with a huge number of reads on each set. It was much more complicated than a pick and pop if they go under or a pick and roll if they go over.
In the NBA, pure point guards are overrated. Who was the last great PG to win a championship? Jason Kidd? Tony Parker? In the college game they are more important because the players don't have as much time together. A good PG can get everyone in the right place and keep them on the same page. Younger players need a floor general.
Is that really YOU Bazza? With all due respect, your online persona doesn't fit the photo. No offense intended but you looked more cerebral, like a musician.
Iona vs Princeton can be found on YouTube in its entirety. It’s an entertaining game and can be watched in it’s entirety in about 40 minutes if you scroll through inaction and Clayton’s time on the bench. This game will give you a very good picture of Clayton’s game. Rather than telling you what I thought about Clayton’s performance, I would rather have people watch it and comment on it. After watching this game, you should have an opinion as to whether Clayton is an SEC-level starter, an SEC-level starting point guard, an SEC-level star, etc.
So I haven’t posted on here over the last 4-5 years due to having some players either playing for the Gators or being recruited by them. But now that I don’t I will jump in on this one. You all are making too much about who is a real pg for this team. The truth is as long as we have a few guys who are capable of bringing up the ball vs pressure and able to get us into our sets close enough to the three point line (not initiating close to half court due to pressure ) we will be fine. Coaches need to have players who can beat their man and get into paint or require a double to stop them (post players) so that they can get the defense in rotations to create opportunities. Kugel is still our top guy to be able to do that and hopefully maybe one of our bigs will be good back to the basket. I think Clayton having watched him a bit will also be able to put it on the floor and make plays. He is more than capable of bringing it up vs pressure and initiate offense and we will use ball screen action to create those defensive rotations. Another pg/combo will be a necessity due to just plain numbers but I think we are fine with who we have. Where we might be lacking the most is not on the offensive side of the ball it’s on the defensive side. Kugel has a chance to be good defensively if he learns to play lower ( would help him on offense too ) but we don’t really have someone who can pressure the ball and make teams initiate further from the basket. It’s ok and there are some scheme things you can do with switching/doubling ball screens/ icing ball screens etc… but straight ball pressure matters and we may lack it. all in all the personnel on offense is fine at the 1/2/3 and hopefully at the 4/5 although we will have to see against SEC comp.
I agree, in the sense that we have Clayton already and he is definitely starting PG material. I don't understand why people think we desperately need another starting caliber PG in order to force Clayton to SG.
Steph Curry isn't a great point guard. He rarely leads his team in assists and often leads his team in turnovers. Curry is a great basketball player, and an elite shooter, but not a great point guard.
Yes, he is a great point guard, and if he was asked to lead the team in assists, he could get 10 a game. As it stands, he is a better shooter than his teammates, so it makes more sense for him to shoot more often than the typical PG. He is an all time great PG. He should lead the team in turnovers, because he handles the ball more than them. Whoever leads the Warriors in assists is likely getting a lot of them by passing to Curry.
It’s not even that we need a “starting” PG, as just another speedy guy that cannot be pressed/pressured. Some PG have that quality where they are unpressable. Just in case Clayton gets dinged up, gassed, foul trouble, etc it’s important to have that ball handler. We have other guys that can surely handle the ball in half court offense, or bring it up in a pinch. But you still want two speedy guards on the roster. In case of injury. I think it would be quite different having Kugel be the PG for 30+ minutes and handling full court pressure without the assist of a speedier guard. Bonham would have been just fine had he stayed, but with him leaving (I guess not happy being backup) you need that 2nd.
We have Aberdeen as a solid backup, but I have said that all we really need is a depth guy. Depending on how good they are, they should be competing with Aberdeen for minutes. The opinion I disagreed with was that we needed another starting PG.
