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Point Guard Discussion

Discussion in 'Nuttin but Net' started by murphree_hall, May 6, 2023.

  1. murphree_hall

    murphree_hall VIP Member

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    We have some common misconceptions here about the Point Guard position, and as a lifelong PG myself, I thought I would write up some of my thoughts. The impetus for writing this largely centers around the notion that the current Gators basketball roster does not have a "true PG" as a starter for the 2023 season.

    Why do people think this? It's simple really. Walter Clayton Jr. played SG very effectively at Iona, so logically, people assume that he is not a true PG. This is false. He was initially a PG in high school, who is a great shooter, and was moved to SG by his coach Rick Pitino because it made sense for the team he had fielded.

    So what makes a "true PG"?
    1) Dribbling - the PG must be able to effectively get to any spot on the court against pesky defenders without turning the ball over.

    2) Passing - a player doesn't need to pass with the flash of Magic Johnson or Pistol Pete, but they must be able to to pass crisply and accurately. Style should not be discounted as showing off, though. Sometimes a flashy pass is the only way pass could be made and demonstrates a high-level skill that not all PGs possess.

    3) Vision - Possibly the most important PG trait, because if a player doesn't have it, they probably shouldn't be considered as an option to run point even if they can dribble and pass. Vision isn't all about being able to see things before others or better than others, it's also about willingness and habit. Before a rebound is secured, or an inbound pass hits their hands, the PG should have already assessed the situation and have a general idea of what is developing. They should always have their head up.

    4) Situational awareness - Goes with vision, but is not quite the same. The PG has to know what is currently happening, and what will happen. They have to have a "feel" for the game.

    5) Tempo Control - Last on my list, which is not a comprehensive, due to brevity's sake (I'm impressed if any of you made it this far) is tempo control. A very underrated and underestimated skill. If I'm being critical of UF point guard play in the post-Chiozza era, this is where the team has been lacking the most at the PG position. Too much walking the ball up. Too much deliberate execution. Not enough attack and aggressiveness. PGs should not seek to control tempo by merely slowing it down to a comfortable pace. Good PGs are constantly trying to exploit and unsettle the defense. Never allow the defense to get comfortable in what they are doing. If a team is rushing and taking forced shots, then the PG should slow it down. To use an example from the classic movie Ben-Hur, with the different ship rowing speeds (normal, battle, attack, and ramming speeds) typically the slowest pace a team wants to be operating in is at battle speed, but ideally they'd spend most of the time in attack speed with bursts to ramming speed.

    Honorable Mentions:
    Scoring - the scoring ability a PG has, the better. There is no additional benefit to having a PG who is merely a passer and defender. While a team may get away with it, ideally, the PG is also a deadly scorer.
    Defense - great defense up top at the PG position usually disrupts the other team's entire offense and tends to generate fast break opportunities.
    Clock management - PG should be a walking clock on the court and understand nuances of the game with relation to time constraints.
    Leadership - naturally, having the most responsibility on the court, the PG should at minimum be one of the team leaders, if not the main leader.
     
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  2. murphree_hall

    murphree_hall VIP Member

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    Would love to hear thoughts from you all whether you agree or disagree!
     
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  3. gatordavisl

    gatordavisl VIP Member

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    You make many good points. My quibble would be with your assertion about misconceptions. I went on record suggestion that Kugel might be best at PG, with Clayton starting at the two. My reasoning: Kugel played PG in HS (like Clayton) and has strong potential for being the floor general. He needs to improve on TOs. Also, Clayton may be the best spot up shooter on the team, meaning that he might be best at the two.

    Hopefully, we are in a situation where either player can run the point, with Aberdeen filling in as needed. I like the thought of having a couple 6'4"+ PGs, as it potentially creates mismatches. You have a taller guard who can drive & score, drive & dish, or kick out to an open Clayton. Boom chaka laka!
     
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  4. murphree_hall

    murphree_hall VIP Member

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    I get what you are saying, but the tape on both players doesn't suggest Kugel being the better PG. He might be a good PG and very effective, but I think he is better suited at SG if Clayton is on the court. If you look at my list of PG skills, do you really think that Kugel is better at any of these than Clayton? This isn't a knock on Kugel... I think Kugel has lottery pick potential if he shows even a 15-20% improvement this year. I'd also argue that the best shooter doesn't necessarily become the SG. Steph is a better shooter than Klay, even though Klay is a beast. Steph is still the PG for a reason, and Klay is still the SG for a reason.

    I don't believe Kugel was a PG in high school, BTW. Wasn't Aberdeen the starting PG?
     
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  5. gatordavisl

    gatordavisl VIP Member

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    I'm just shooting from the hip, as I don't really know Clayton's game. Looking fwd to finding out!
     
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  6. murphree_hall

    murphree_hall VIP Member

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    I kind of figured that, because when I watched some tape on Clayton it was obvious he is a skilled PG. He's not just a shooter. He's a complete point guard.
     
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  7. chargator

    chargator VIP Member

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    All good traits for a PG. I especially liked Vision & Tempo & agree, we’ve lacked that since Cheese. I do think Nemhard had the ability to do those things, but Mike’s offensive pace didn’t allow it.

    I know TG & staff have been looking for another PG, but at this point in the Portal timeline, I hope we don’t reach for one.

    Murphree, thanks for the breakdown & discussion.
     
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  8. tampajack1

    tampajack1 Premium Member

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    Dr. Phillips started Aberdeen, Kugel and a smaller guard. Technically, the smaller guard was probably the point guard, but once they got the ball up court, Aberdeen and Kugel were usually the players initiating the offense.
     
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  9. murphree_hall

    murphree_hall VIP Member

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    I have to take issue with one part of your post… “once they got the ball up court”. I think you have expanded the definition of point guard to suit your narrative.

    The point guard, or in rare cases the point forward or point center, is the one who is bringing the ball up court. If Aberdeen brought the ball up the court, he was playing point. Just because Kugel may have had a role in initiating the half court set after the PG brings up the ball, that doesn’t also make him PG. I’ve watched some tape on them in high school and Kugel was not a PG. I’m not taking about randomly bringing the ball up court here and there because of game flow. I’m talking about when it is a player’s job and responsibility.
     
  10. murphree_hall

    murphree_hall VIP Member

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    The main point here is that if we add a PG, I’m almost certain it would be as a backup or depth. I just don’t see how another PG fits into the lineup as a starter. It would completely upset the seemingly high priority of Coach Golden adding length and size to the roster.

    Think about it. Clayton and Kugel are the presumed starters at guard. If you add another guy to play point, it moves Kugel into small forward. Then what happens to Richard? He becomes our power forward at 6’4-6’5” then we have only one true big on the floor at center? How is that the vision with all the talented front court players we added? Unless Golden is trying to make a death lineup like Golden State.

    Clayton has to be our starting PG… or Kugel (which would be weird, but acceptable I guess).
     
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  11. INGATORSWETRUST

    INGATORSWETRUST GC Hall of Fame

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    D Wade was a shooting guard but you also wanted the ball in his hands when game was on the line. You need a point creator in your team when things get tight. Someone that wants the ball and can create baskets.
     
  12. murphree_hall

    murphree_hall VIP Member

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    That is true, but I don’t see how it’s relevant. You can say the same thing about Jordan and Kobe. D Wade was an all time great shooting guard, not a point guard.

    Any position on your team can be your closer or main scorer. That’s not what we are talking about here.
     
  13. INGATORSWETRUST

    INGATORSWETRUST GC Hall of Fame

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    • Not true. Watch his first NBA Championship and the NBA Finals. He was the point guard when the team needed baskets and the Finals MVP.
     
  14. murphree_hall

    murphree_hall VIP Member

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    Playing point on occasion does not mean you are “a” or “the” point guard. Even Jordan played point guard for a short while because of an injury to the actual point guard early in his career. I think he averaged close to a triple double during the span. That doesn’t mean MJ was a point guard. Obviously, he could have played point if asked, though.
     
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  15. oneatatime

    oneatatime GC Hall of Fame

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    Not sure what Coach Golden's view of his ideal point guard. Personally, I'll take a Jaylen Brunson clone
     
  16. murphree_hall

    murphree_hall VIP Member

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    I think Golden and 99.9% of coaches would take that deal as well.
     
  17. audiogatorjim

    audiogatorjim GC Hall of Fame

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    Just a few general thoughts, maybe a bit off topic:
    I think Kugel could be but should not be the PG; his shooting and scoring capabilities is strongest at SG, IMO.
    I’m probably in the minority but I thought Lofton improved as last season went along. I was ok with this as his shooting and offense were not too consistent.
    The best point guard I saw at UF was Taurean Green; he literally controlled setting up the offense. I say let Taurean coach up whoever the PG is.
     
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  18. murphree_hall

    murphree_hall VIP Member

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    I agree with everything you said except I believe Scottie Wilbekin was the best PG I've seen at UF. Jayson Williams might have been if his career at UF wasn't rudely interrupted by suspensions and the NBA.
     
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  19. INGATORSWETRUST

    INGATORSWETRUST GC Hall of Fame

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    Florida Basketball: The Top 50 Players in School History

    This was interesting thread. Dated from Erving Walker time period but highlights how good Eddie Shannon was as a player. Agree Williams had great talent but go with Taurean Green due to NCAA titles. Great floor leader/General that made his foul shots at the end of games to close out victories
     
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  20. INGATORSWETRUST

    INGATORSWETRUST GC Hall of Fame

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