Murder of Jordan Neely on the Subway

It was 3 minutes, not 15.

We rode the subway in NY at least a dozen times this past weekend while visiting our daughter. Unless taxpayers want to pay for armed police on every platform, and in at least every car or every other car, this kind of thing will continue to happen without it being an "epic fail". There were clearly homeless folk riding or sleeping on the train to stay out of the rain, and on many platforms. When it's cold and rainy, as it was, where else are they going to go if the City isn't providing more organized assistance and shelter? Jail?

FWIW we saw subway cops on about 1/3-1/2 the platforms we used, but not a single one on the trains.

 

The problem is that is it totally fair to the marine to punish him for our collective failure to address the issue? I’m not taking a position either way yet.

 

So you are thinking he was arrested 40 times for being homeless and just coincidentally his last offense was battery? Do you consider battery as “aggressively annoying” or “being visibly homeless in public”?

 

Would it be fair to punish me for our collective failure to abolish capitalism if I kill a CEO?

 

This is how we handle the homeless problem here, we make pretty much anything they do illegal. The city has been cracking down on fare jumpers. You can get arrested simply for jumping a turnstile. Guarantee the guy who's basically living in the subway has a few of those under his belt. Apparently he was a Michael Jackson impersonator and was one of those guys on the subway who panhandled that way. I dont know if thats strictly legal either and I'm sure the cops find ways to get these guys on something when they become a nuisance. While I admit I'm speculating here, the odds seem pretty low to me that his arrest record reflects an ultra violent history more than simply the life he's been leading for some time now. He could get nailed for battery simply by touching someone he was asking for money.

 

Would a jury ever hear about their respective criminal histories or potential propensity for violence? I did read a couple articles in which Neely's dad and another family member said that Neely had mental health issues and noted that he was never the same after his mom was murdered by his step father. I think his dad described Neely as having a temper, too. That does give me some pause about the description of Neely as simply making people a little uncomfortable by being loud, but again, I'm not sure how relevant that may or may not be legally. I'm sure the witnesses have been or are being interviewed though.

 

Curious as to how many here have significant experience with chronically homeless. There is a pretty significant amount of homeless that will refuse assistance especially if it requires some sort of sobriety or defined terms of responsibility. I just wonder what people propose when they talk about "solving" homelessness. Psychological assistance which is obviously a component to helping them also has this hurdle to overcome.

 

My experience with the homeless is probably 25 years old. A great percentage was mentally ill. Some was addiction but I thought most of those were self medicating a mental illness. I have no solution to the homeless.

 

Not necessarily but I'd think if a person had an issue with it enough to be documented in a criminal history, military or civilian employment or legal record it would be visited no? Obviously you can't account for someone who's issues haven’t been publicly revealed as of yet. I doubt George Zimmerman gets the same benefit of doubt given his since documented run ins following his acquittal for example. I could be mistaken but I think he was pretty "clean" prior to all of that.

 

So many of the ones I deal with exhibit an arrested social development. Not sure if some regressed or never progressed but either way I suspect multiple factors like trauma, chemical dependence and lack of education all play a role. Several we come across exhibit the social behavior and intellect of middle school aged children. It's a different life altogether.

 

He said that the chokehold lasted about 15 minutes, even as the train stopped at the Broadway-Lafayette station and the doors opened. That's when Vazquez said most of the people who were inside the train car left, with a few exceptions, including the three who had been working to subdue the man.

NYC Subway Rider Dies on F Train in Manhattan After Put in Chokehold, Police Say – NBC New York

Seems to me like cops should have been there by then if that's the case.

 

This is manslaughter/murder. You don't get to kill mentally ill homeless people just because they are bothering you.

 

I know, but I thought that was later corrected to 3 minutes?

Ironically that was one of the stations we used several times on the Lower East Side just this past weekend.

And I'm not defending what happened, but my point was that to get the kind of protection that would be required to avoid or mitigate most of these situations requires the MTA to commit far more resources to subways and stations than what we saw over a 4 day period last weekend, which was negligible at best

 

Wut?

 

I do know that a guy I used to help had warrants out for his arrest for loitering. I thought that on a really cold night he could flag down a cop and spend a night in a warm cell. He did not like this idea. He almost got violent with me for suggesting it.

 

It is disheartening to see an attorney make oversimplified indictments of situations with so little information. I think it's fair to lean heavy in favor of a particular position but to make definitive statements like that seems antithetical to the process. I mean at this point we know nothing about bystander testimonials unless you do in which case I apologize.

 

I think the video is 3 minutes and starts with the dude already in a hold and ends without police showing up. :: shrugs ::

 

This isn’t a court of law, based on what we know a reasonable person can conclude a crime has been committed. Unknown if murder or manslaughter but as I posted def murder if administered by an experienced person. If different facts come out we can reassess but the initial impression of a reasonable person looking at a known fact set is more often right than wrong.

 

Just a thought, but it probably does not help their mental state by pretending they dont exist or treating them as hostile/nuisances. No judgement, because no one knows what to do individually to help them out of their predicament, but I do think its a two way street how this works, when society treats them as less than human.

 

Fair enough. My comment was more pointed specifically at GL given his profession and the simplicity of his statement. We don't know if the guy was "just bothering" people or what level threatening behavior he exhibited at all.