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Path of the Panther

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by ursidman, Feb 11, 2023.

  1. ridgetop

    ridgetop GC Hall of Fame

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    I’m with you. Too many people taking up too much lane. After WW2 we had something like 120 million ripple in the US. Today it is close to 3 times that many.
    Black bears, panthers, American crocs, bison, wolves…. All suffer/suffered so that more people can take up more space.
    No simple solutions…sadly.
     
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  2. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    sorry, just get frustrated with the environmental nimbyism. I love the outdoors and don't mind doing my part to help preserve things but get mad when others will preach it but not practice it when they are the ones getting hit with costs or restrictions to restore or account for incoming species trying to reclaim native lands. Wolves, big cats, brown bear, all top predators that people don't want to return to natural ranges while they cry like babies over non-native manatees that decimate grass flats and produce tremendous amounts of pollutants
     
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  3. gator95

    gator95 GC Hall of Fame

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    I can tell you if a Florida Panther ever comes to my neighborhood in Seminole county it will never leave. We have 500+ deer in my neighborhood and they are scared of nothing so it would be easy meals for years here.
     
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  4. ridgetop

    ridgetop GC Hall of Fame

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    I gotcha. No worries. We are clearly on the same side. And it’s weird. There are environmentalist who don’t want it in their backyard and fight over it. Big corp fights it, cattle ranchers fight it.. people from every walk of life.. and personally I think most of it is due to ignorance.(and fear caused by that ignorance).
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2023
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  5. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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  6. littlebluelw

    littlebluelw GC Hall of Fame

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    Is there an update or something to this thread? Reappeared today from February?
     
  7. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    the state/feds have no problem mandating it on the large development tracts I am working on (10k acres+} and I do not object to it. My beef is with others who want to enforce protection in your neighborhood but not in theirs. Save the panther in south florida but screw the panther in south georgia or michigan or indiana. I hate NIMBYs. San Fran libs save the environment but dont increase my electric rates to restore Hetch Hetchy canyon (Yosemite sister canyon flooded to provide cheap water and electricity to san fran)
     
  8. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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  9. littlebluelw

    littlebluelw GC Hall of Fame

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    I know Ward’s family. He does outstanding work in his documentaries. I’m fortunate enough to have seen panthers here in Polk, Highlands, Hardee and Hendry Counties.
    Saw one dead on Hwy 60 east of Kissimmee river last summer.
    One of my encounters in Hendry county was within 50 yards. They are a bit more prolific in numbers than what is reported IMO.
     
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  10. ursidman

    ursidman VIP Member

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    In the 80s the population was down to 25-30 and I'm fairly confident of that estimate. Many of those in the wild had genetic defects with atrial-septum defect (hole in the interior heart wall). undescended testicles, defective sperm being the most detrimental. Inbreeding exacerbated these problems with males mating with their sisters, daughters and granddaughters. There was VERY limited to almost no successful reproduction.

    In response to the need to improve/broaden the gene pool 8 Texas cougar females were released within the then current range and 5 of them produced young. After a few years they were removed. Although the Texas cougars were released to address the poor genetics and weren't brought into FL to address the low numbers, it sure had that effect as well. The numbers have increased significantly to something around or over 200 - still not a huge population though.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2023
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  11. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    I remember the sign on the Alley that I think got as low as 28 left. It was to tell you to drive safely and it had that effect on me. I can’t imagine how I would feel had I hit one
     
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  12. ursidman

    ursidman VIP Member

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    Yep, every time one got hit someone would go out and edit the number 28, 27. Sorta humorous. But that was a pretty good estimate. When we added up the ones we knew about that were collared plus others that we saw sign of that couldn't be one of the collared cats thats about the number we came up with.
     
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  13. GatorRade

    GatorRade Rad Scientist

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    Oh dang, I missed this thread back then. My wife and I would have joined you guys (if you made it).
     
  14. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    We did. It was great. Would have loved to have you join us
     
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  15. littlebluelw

    littlebluelw GC Hall of Fame

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    A golf buddy of mine showed me a picture of a panther yesterday within the City limits of Lake Wales. It was walking across the 13th fairway at LWCC!
     
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  16. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    i fear that the pythons are forcing them to move due to lack of prey for the panther, but then I think about hogs and wonder if panthers and pythons could ever run out of pigs to eat. No official reports, but rumor is that the deer population around Ft Myers airport is also drawing in predators, right while they are building a second runway. one of several inconvenient realities being addressed with a don't ask, don't tell mentality on some large public infrastructure works. If a private guy failed to report, they would get killed by USFWS. CaraCara birds also seem to be well on the path to recovery if population estimates of years back are to be believed. And they get more protection than an eagle today. We ahve some upland fields that will end up in a panther corridor that we tried to get permitted to use as spray disposal fields for subregional utility plants of 1 MGD plus. Agencies wouldn't even consider the benefit of raising hay in the panther corridor, even if operations limited to 10 hours per day, 3 days a week. grow hay that feeds deer, deer feeds panther, land used to provide passive income to support spray field maintenance to add surface water to the aquifer rather than put it down a disposal well. I wonder if we would ahve offered amish farming techniques if they would have still been so worried about operations disturbing travel patterns. These cats aren't usually moving much during the day so don't understand the hard no.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2023
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  17. archigator_96

    archigator_96 GC Hall of Fame

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    Would panthers eat the pythons?
     
  18. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    not sure but gators are learning the pythons taste like chicken just like some groupers are learning to eat lionfish. predatory abilities/tendencies seem to adapt
     
  19. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

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    Thank you for the info. Anything to help the Florida Panthers is a great thing IMO.
     
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  20. ursidman

    ursidman VIP Member

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    When I was in SW Florida, I never saw a development that was completely stopped because of the presence of panthers. Including Ford Test track, Florida Gulf Coast University, town of Ava Maria, all those residential developments along Immokalee Rd/846, Thousands of acres of panther habitat converted to orange groves (Collier Company), stores and small strip malls. They were just made more expensive to the developer via studies and mitigation actions. Could be different now - it has been years since I kept up with day to day panther things.

    One of the big problems for panther advocates was that panthers have such a huge home range (100 - 200 sq miles) that it could not be said that any one development of how ever many acres would cause irreparable harm to panthers so it has been death by a thousand cuts.