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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. oragator1

    oragator1 Hurricane Hunter Premium Member

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  2. oragator1

    oragator1 Hurricane Hunter Premium Member

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  3. okeechobee

    okeechobee GC Hall of Fame

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    More likely an indicator that Russia can buy the munitions from China at a cheaper cost than what it costs to produce them at home.
     
  4. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    That might be a possibility, but I doubt you actually think that’s more likely.
     
  5. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    The US will take 2-3 years to ramp up to producing the same number of shells that Russia fires in three or four days. The US cannot win an industrial war.
     
  6. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

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    Artillery shell production for Ukraine is ramping up right here in Scranton, PA. WW1 shell producion facility is getting spit, polish and a big Gov't check to "ramp up" - currently at 6,000 shells every 5 days with an expansion program in the works to increase that by 10X.

    On average Ukraine shoots 6,000 large caliber rounds per day.

    The Scranton experience is not a "one off" - the US and NATO allies are increasing spending on military infrastructure projects to support Ukraine.

    Whom would you rather have ramping up production and supply? N Korea and China or Western Europe / USA? LOL I know whom my choice would be.

    Abrams Mfg. facility in Lima, Ohio, was down to 100 workers a few years ago and was basicly turning out an M1A1 "tank upgrades" (not a new tank) of 1 tank per month. There are now 1,100 working and still expanding. I can't find production totals but it's more than 1 upgrade a month, that much I am sure of.
     
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  7. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    “Bakhmut will go down in military history as the graveyard of the Ukrainian army.”

    — Col (ret) Douglas MacGregor —
     
  8. defensewinschampionships

    defensewinschampionships GC Hall of Fame

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    Just like Lend-Lease, this is a good way to ramp up production to wartime goals before we jump in with both feet.
     
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  9. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

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    Must admit I am a bit confused by the strategic and tactical situation in Ukraine.

    Russia is making SLOWWW progress in some theaters. So slow that progress is measured in metees or yards.

    Ukraine? One day I hear - time to get out of Bahkmut NOW! Followed the next day that Ukraine may be about to launch an offensive there or perhaps further south.

    Given the current situation I am not impressed with Russia's supposed offensive. An offensive that apparantly is stuck in place. Russia has two pincer's in place at Bahkmut separated by 2 kilometers. Been that way for weeks now. Very little progress to close the vice.

    I would like to see what a Ukrainian offensive on the battalion level (44 main battle tanks and associated armor, artillery and infantry support) could do.

    I suppose we shall see.
     
  10. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Indeed. We know what this glacial “offensive” has cost Russia in time. We don’t know what it has cost them in casualties.

    A “battalion” sized offensive is not very big, by the way. The division is the chess piece for this war, and an offensive of any note would involve at least two corps, say, four to six divisions (based on the open-source information available, this was the size of Ukraine’s force involved in the Kharkiv Counteroffensive). For scope, Germany launched the Ardennes Counteroffensive (aka Battle of the Bulge) with 30 divisions, and a total of 33 Allied divisions (larger and more fully manned than German equivalents) were involved by the end of the battle.
     
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  11. GatorJMDZ

    GatorJMDZ gatorjack VIP Member

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  12. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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  13. ATLGATORFAN

    ATLGATORFAN Premium Member

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    seems the Russians have learned they are way exposed with long thin lines with their inability to logistically keep up. The strategy has changed back 75 years to slow attrition. Don’t over extend. Grind out the Ukrainian best soldiers then roll over the replacements
     
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  14. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Except if that is their strategy, then they don’t seem to be doing that well either. Reminds me of Muschamp’s strategy to win ball games by winning time of possession. He certainly did the latter, but it never translated into the former.
     
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  15. ATLGATORFAN

    ATLGATORFAN Premium Member

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    hard to tell. As we all know the first casualty in war is the truth. I don’t believe much of what either side says is going on.
     
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  16. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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  17. exiledgator

    exiledgator Gruntled

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  18. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

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    Real information is hard to come by.
    Especially truth.

    I simply base my opinions based on the battle maps and location of forces.

    Generally speaking I believe them to be fairly accurate.

    Those maps "to me" suggest a grinding war of attrition not unlike the battlefields of WW1.

    Until the lines "move" it appears to be a terrible killing zone. My instincts tell me Ukraine is playing a clever game of having Russia engage, and then exhaust itself.

    As long as Ukraine makes every meter a costly man and equipment venture for Russia I think that's the general plan until the mobilization of NATO equipment is in place for a serious counter offensive.

    Uftaipan - Thank you for the force correction. I like your full blown divisional concept! Why play around!!!
     
  19. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    U.S. tanks to arrive sooner rather than later. We will give Ukraine our older Abrams tanks instead of spending time and money to downgrade our newest version of the tank. I'm a little surprised that the army didn't think of this before. Was Captain Obvious not in charge of this decision?

    The older tanks should also be easier to operate and maintain.

    US speeds up Abrams tank delivery to Ukraine war zone

    I don't know why we aren't sending a couple hundred Abrams tanks, unless the Pentagon thinks that would be overkill. We have something like 5,000 of these things.
     
  20. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Blinkin rebukes Russia and China. Worried that the war might not go on forever ...