So the FBI now says the virus came from a lab leak

I think the lab is by the wet market because of all the live animals kept there. Is the Wuhan wet market a big market or one of the oldest still open? Answer that question and go from there.

 

Based on everything I have read, there is still zero evidence that this was a manipulated virus. There is also no indication that this is a lab leak "which still means a Zoonotic event to infect a lab worker - something everyone ignores".

That all said, if any proof is found that the Chinese were directly at fault it will matter. Wuhan is not the only BSL4 Lab in China. There are 2 more in China and plans to build two additional labs. It matters because if this was an accident we need to a) still understand the zoonotic event b) the international community needs to go in and work with the Chinese to improve processes at these labs. Further, the US CDC ships research samples of some of the most dangerous pathogens known around the world. If the Chinese Academy of Sciences cannot operate labs safely, then they cannot be trusted partners in research.

As a race, we should not let it come to that. China has highly skilled researchers who contribute significantly to corona virus understanding due to their proximity to natural reservoirs across their country.

 

In fact the ChiComs blocked info from the outset.

Very hard to prove anything.

 

I just meant that the hypothesis shouldn’t have been automatically dismissed.

 

I do think we aren’t doing a good job of communicating. The level of condescension you are displaying suggests that you might not be willing to take my posts seriously, but here is one of my main questions for you:

How can we justify assessing as garbage a hypothesis based on a new empirical result before it has been checked?

 

The only thing that escaped from a lab was a computer-made transcript (erroneously referred to as a “sequence”) which transcript was used as the basis of the now certified fatally-flawed Corman-Drosten (PCR) test which can’t tell the difference between a human and a papaya.

That’s why you tested positive three times after you were duped into taking the so-called vaccines ...

 

Very good question. Until recently, I didn’t have a strong opinion about either of the currently identified potential sources. I have waffled between them. However, due to my thought processes or training, I favor the option most supported by the data (wet market) as the other seems to be supported mostly by geopolitics, and suspicion aided by an opaque Chinese government.

And my opinion means next to nothing beyond my front door. Just follow the data and make informed conclusions

 

I certainly do not applaud everything that China does. But it’s not China’s fault that we became China. We and almost every other country in the world fell hook, line and sinker.

 

It’s a tough problem because we don’t all agree on what hypothesis is most supported by the data. I read David Quammen’s book on COVID, Breathless. He’s maybe my favorite science writer, and he really knows his biology too. I found his arguments, both empirical and rational, for wet lab origin very compelling. Another one of my favorite science writers, Matt Ridley, who also really knows his stuff, has also authored a book on COVID, Viral. I haven’t yet read his book, but I know that he argues for the lab leak hypothesis. As I respect both of these guys’ mental powers, it leaves me a bit uneasy about this problem.

I am currently with you that if I had to make a guess with a gun to my head would say wet market spillover, but a key part of scientific thinking is to be ready to abandon one’s beliefs upon new evidence, so I also remain open to other ideas. Though human-designed virus seems unlikely.

 

Because regardless of the outcome he has predetermined it is garbage because that’s his narrative and he’s sticking to it. His tells are very obvious.

 

This is certainly a possibility, but I’m guessing he wouldn’t describe it this way.

 

There are smarter people and certainly more knowledgeable people on this issue on both sides, so whatever opinion I have is based on a shaky foundation. Having said that, I have to somewhat lean towards the people who seem most credible and what makes the most sense, if the evidence is limited.

Listening to that podcast above we have somebody who has been literally in the thick of it since the beginning. His background is exactly in this particular area. He sounds highly credible. The anecdotes and evidence he presents seem compelling. Finally I tend to have a bias against conspiracy and the lab leak theory does seem to have a bit more conspiratorial thinking. Thus it seems much more likely at this point to be from wet markets or natural origin, but I don’t dismiss either theory.

It is unfortunate that this issue, like everything else, has become an issue where your opinion of where it came from is largely based on ideology.

 

I’m not being condescending at all. I just don’t understand why my opinion has anything to do with the debate of investigation of this “new theory”. Investigate away, but I don’t believe the Chinese will be honest so yes I am skeptical of the vast majority of what’s coming from China.

 

Actually, the CPC was all too eager to share their hysteria with the world and to see the world replicate it.

 

I'm "shocked"....LMAO!!! Where have they been for 3 years????

 

Well I don’t know that you are the expert on whether you are being condescending to another person, but clearly we aren’t going to solve that one.

What I am asking is why you, gator95, have personally deemed a new hypothesis to be garbage despite it not being yet checked out. I’m not asking whether you are in charge of the US investigative team or actively will obstruct such an investigation. I am only asking for you to provide justification for your own personal claim.

 

It is unfortunate indeed. While I can see why one’s views on the appropriate level of taxation should be informed by one’s ideology, I see no logical reason why these ideologies should influence our assessments of natural phenomena, such as climate change, ecosystem function, or viral evolution.

 

I enjoy reading Quamman over the years. A very effective science communicator. Far better than most scientists. Saw him speak at UF ~ 2007 and met him afterwards. I’m about done with reading about Covid but may read this. Thanks.

 

So cool that you got to see him. In my opinion, Breathless isn’t the equal of his top stuff, but not much is. It’s still a page turner.

 

Interesting article in the NY Times on the politicization of the origin of Covid.
Lab Leak or Not? How Politics Shaped the Battle Over Covid’s Origin
I do not think that we will ever know with any certainty whether the pandemic was the result of a lab leak or whether the source was a wet market in Wuhan. Both are still equally probable and it doesn't really matter since in either case the cause was attributable to incompetence by the Chinese government. I would also add that the two theories aren't mutually exclusive. Both are possible and if the research at the Wuhan virology lab involved viruses originally found in bats, the source was still zoonotic.