Everything is just a clump of cells. The 4 month pro birthers just think a bigger clump is more important than the smaller. So we are really the same just haggling over how soon to force birth and which clump of cells matter I love unity. * Ducks for cover.*
Ok, electrical impulses…and? It’s still not a heart. What do these electrical impulses demarcate? One can detect electrical signals in the nervous system of a worm. What does that mean? To me it’s just a very strange line of demarcation, one that for all intents and purposes seems to just make the life begins at conception take seem slightly more rationalized/nuanced at the 6 week mark, without having to address the practical issues or recognize that 6 weeks is essentially a total ban. Either way, the ultimate issue is you believe this “life” from its very conception has a soul. No? That for you to kill the human embryo is killing a soul. Im aware in the Catholic faith there is a place for unbaptized babies who perish, called Limbo. A place neither in heaven or hell. So I guess there must be a bunch of embryo ghosts floating around there too, whooda thunk it.
"Earliest form of the heart" is a euphemism for "not a heart." It is incapable of doing the task of a heart, which is pumping blood to other organs (which also largely don't exist at that stage). It has none of the structure or muscles that define your heart and define when it is beating (a heart beat is a muscular contraction triggered by an electrical impulse, not simply an electrical impulse). And why is the circulatory system (which hasn't developed at this point) the one that matters anyways? Here is the definition of heartbeat provided by NIH. Because there is no contraction nor blood pumped to your lungs and the rest of your body, it doesn't meet that definition. That definition appears to explicitly separate the electrical
If you want to see the biggest drop in abortion possible you should be arguing for a complete ban from inception on (with the usual health of mother and rape/incest exceptions). That is entirely possible and numerous states have already done it, including Texas. Florida could easily do it too, if the Repub politicians who run the state weren't afraid to go that far. So they are going to propose and probably pass your 6 week ban. 6 weeks is a copout, for them and for you.
Not to sidetrack this too much, but I thought "limbo" was on its way out - assuming it was ever really "in." Not sure of the status, but your question about embryos is an interesting one. Question of Faith: Do we still believe in “limbo”? – Catholic Telegraph
Are there any scientists in the room? Biologists? Just checking. Florida is one of the least free states in the country, yet the nasally one insists we are. I guess if you believe that, it’s because you hate people who aren’t like you and don’t want to know they exist. I plan to get off the hamster wheel soon and disengage from news media. If a meteor is heading my way I’ll never know. I like that idea. I’m in a little bit of pissed mood and this thread didn’t help.
No, there are some cells, which are not beating at all, and an electrical impulse. There is no heart and there certainly is no “beat”. Word games.
Of course Florida is a free state, everyone knows that. We’re free to: *Pollute *Shoot up a school *Ban books *Oppress women *Suppress voting *Get sick and die *Consider anything you don’t like as “woke”
I'm not catholic and find that I disagree with a great deal taught in catholicism... and my basis has nothing to do with a "soul" . It has to do with a human being that many of us believe deserves its right to exist.
...And the hand I mentioned above is incapable of doing the tasks of a hand. It cant pick up things, make a fist, point etc. Still a hand.
The definition of a hand doesn't contain certain functionality within the definition the way a heartbeat does. It is just the end point of your arm beyond the wrist. A heartbeat is defined by a contraction that doesn't exist at that stage. A hand is a physical object. A heartbeat is a process. This would be more akin to claiming that somebody without fingers is snapping their fingers because their brain is trying to tell their nonexistent fingers to snap.
The heart beat is literally the contraction of the mass of cells caused by the electrical impulse. Even in your heart, that is what a heartbeat is. A heartbeat is literally an electrical impulse sent from the brain. The pacemaker cells in the body are what fire those electrical impulses. sinoatrial node (noun) ANATOMY a small body of specialized muscle fibers, located in the right atrium of the heart, whose activity is responsible for initiating the heartbeat. THE SINOATRIAL NODE In the adult the SA node is found at the junction of the right common cardinal vein and the wall of the right atrium, within the terminal groove. These cells have the most rapid inherent rhythm so setting the rate for the rest of the myocardium, and thereby functioning as the dominant pacemaker. This pacemaker activity has been illustrated in chick embryos at an age approximately equivalent to 20 days in the human embryo.2 The pacemaker activity develops in the inflow tract of the primary heart tube and is the first element to function in the CCS. Action potentials spread from the posterior inflow tract to the anterior outflow tract of the heart generating a wave of contraction.3 However, it is not until approximately 35 days of human development that a morphologically identifiable SA node can be seen.4 Little is known about mechanisms that initiate and maintain the growth of the SA node. The impulse is then conducted via the atrial myocardium to the AV node. The development of cardiac rhythm
A heartbeat is not an electrical impulse. The electrical impulse controls the rhythm of the heartbeat, but the heartbeat, as provided in the definition from NIH is the contraction, not the electrical signal. Again, if I tell a set of nonexistent fingers to snap, it doesn't mean I snapped my fingers.
The sinoatrial node is visible at 35 days. That is literally the part of the heart that fires off the impulses. It exists and is visible at 35 days and commences firing off the impulses almost immediately. We have the sinoatrial node of the heart firing off impulses to the developing heart tube that surrounds it. That is science. That is the heart. Early. Still developing. Heart.
No, the sinotrial node is not the heart. That is why we have a separate word for it (if it was the heart, we would call it "the heart," however, it does not fit the definition of a heart, provided below). BTW, the study linked to back that claim (footnote 4) is a study about mice hearts, not human ones. Definition of HEART
