OGT-Florida at Georgia 2/28/2023 7:00 pm SECN

I won't disparage Mike White. He followed a legend and we all know it never works out as well as we hope. Look at football. After 12 years, still trying to claw our way back to SEC prominence.

 

Thanks MCB51

 

Ole Miss should have dumped Kermit last year and made a run at White. I'm sure he would have been thrilled to go back there. I don't blame him for taking the UGA job. He can elevate them enough to stay employed and make millions for a dozen years or so.

 

You are absolutely right. We didn't know what we had with Mike White either, and as a result of taking that risk, our program has slipped into abject obscurity. We are a microscopic dot on the radar of college basketball relevancy when just a decade and a half ago, we were one of the premier programs.

So after whiffing with Mike White, an unproven and now proven incapable of delivering commodity, why would we go that route again? I could understand taking Golden after Donovan. But to replace a failed experiment with another experiment is not endearing to recruits. It reeks of non-commitment to success. I want everything to go well with Florida sports. Billy brought Jason Williams with him from Marshall. He also had Kenyon Weaks. Jason Williams, a long-term NBA player who won at least one NBA championship, was a major drawing card for Billy. He got Wright and Parker the next year out of HS. Three years into his tenure, he signed, Haslem, Miller, and Dupay- three 5-star players. Given this current trajectory with Golden, is it realistic that in this day of social media and publicity and information that 2 or even 3 top-level McDonald's All Americans are going to commit to our program at the same time? Probably not.

 

Just as a follow-up, the next year, Billy got Hamilton, Bonner, Harvey, and Nelson. Two more people who played in the NBA. Without a great recruiter, a program has NO CHANCE of success. Who has Golden signed that is even remotely on these guys' level this year? This is now going into his second year of recruiting. Two years after that he got David Lee, James White, and Adrian Moss who played on our first national championship team and made significant contributions. Billy went for blue chips, not 3-stars. One player in Golden's class is not even ranked in the star system. The other is a 3-star. I like Golden a lot, but he is going to have to step his game up.

 

You set-up a false dichotomy. Even then, your application is premature, at best.

Go ahead and compare practically ANY college coach, certainly any up-and-coming college coach, against a Hall of Fame, one of the best recruiters ever, squeaky clean and honest Billy Donovan . . . and you'll always come up short and stay unhappy.

Coach Golden replaced Coach White. Not Coach Donovan. Is he better than Mike White? Clearly. Year 1. That's improvement.

Will Coach Golden ultimately reach the same level as Billy Donovan? Nobody knows. Certainly you don't know in Year 1.

However, I've learned that I can't argue with someone who sees a glass half-empty. Your position is clear: Coach Golden is a failure. Remove him. Mine is too: Let's wait and give Coach Golden a chance before pronouncing him a failure who should be removed to give way to the next Billy Donovan . . . and you could get rich by identifying the next Billy Donovan in advance to college programs, if you could.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

I think we should give him three years to turn the program around (perhaps 4) since next year will essentially be more of the same.

 

Coach White recruited well - maybe not Kentucky level , but NBA talent in KJ, Mann , and Nemb, to go with his biggest get ( on paper) Lewis, and quality transfers in Blackshear and Castleton ( who could also go to NBA) and one who got away in SGA

 

His recruiting was inconsistent. Sometimes top notch, and other times baffling.

His ultimate demise was his inability to develop. Other than CC, KJ and TM, most of his recruits or transfers stagnated in their development and never reached their potential.

Quite frankly, I’d rather have a coach who is extraordinary at development but an average recruiter than an outstanding recruiter who does not know how to maximize his talents’ potential.

 

Agreed. In this transfer portal era, the latter type coach won't be able to keep his more talented players for long. The former will attract more talented players over time and seem to "do more with less."

 

We need immediate help with the roster for next season, especially in the front line. I like the incoming freshmen, but they'll still be freshmen. I'd like us to adopt the CC model. Identify quality players that are from Florida and that wanted to come here but didn't for whatever reason, and have a year or two of experience at high-major or good mid-major programs. These are high-probability guys for transferring in.
By the way, when talking about CTG's ability to recruit, you can't leave CC out of the discussion. The big fella was leaving until CTG sat down and talked to him. That's recruiting.

 

So, if we could have gotten any coach who actually would have signed with us, who would you have hired?

 

There were several prominent coaches available after Donovan, and after. Some had varying degrees of baggage attached to them, but there were also some that were scandal free.

 

So you can’t name one. Got it.

 

No, it is not that I can't name one. It is that you refuse to read the plethora of articles that provide numerous alternatives all of which would have been better than Mike White.

Simple Google Search

Do I have to cite one for Golden also?

 

As a department chair for 20 years I have hired many new faculty members. When I hired them I expected every one to be a star. A few were unsuccessful, but that wasn’t my expectation when we hired them.
There is no way to know if any of those coaches would have been more successful at this place at that time. AND, based on the article, White wasn’t some obscure, off-the-wall choice

 

We are discussing who would have been a better replacement for White than Golden. My recollection of names that I proposed included Bobby Hurley, Anthony Grant, Doug McDermott, Kevin Boyle and Kenny Payne. I had no interest in Rick Pitino or Kelvin Sampson, both of whom have ethical issues. I am not aware of any superstars that were available. I also think that Todd Golden is an excellent coach, although his success is going to hinge on bringing in really good players. Who would you have gone after?

 

Look, when you have been handed keys to the Maybach, you might not go cross country with it, but it should maintain some of the prestige and quality after you get them. THAT SIMPLY WAS NOT THE CASE WITH MIKE WHITE.

We can be the southern gentleman that we want to be. But reality is reality. And speculating that proven coach candidates might have increased the prominence of the program is just as easy as speculating that they wouldn't have. I don't think that there is any mystery why schools like Auburn and Tennessee who opted to go with proven commodities rather than unheralded prospects at coaching, are now considered top programs in the SEC and Florida isn't.

Florida and Kentucky are the ONLY programs that have won national championships in the SEC in the past 30 or more years, and yet Florida sees itself consistently post Donovan, at the bottom half of the SEC in performance outcomes.

I want Golden to be successful. I think he has an amazing relationship with the players and the fans, and he has a passion for the game, but without the other fundamental necessities to build a championship program, like noticeable player development and top-notch recruiting among others, being Mr. Congeneality is not going to put banners in the gym.

 

I don't know why Florida is so hung up on ethics? Auburn took a chance with Pearl, and it is working out for them. Ole Miss took a chance with Kiffen, and their program has had more success under his tenure than we have had in the past two years in football.

There were allegations against Meyer and allegations against Donovan. They were never established, but there are many ways to contractually obligate a person to maintain ethical standards. There can be contract compensation forfeiture clauses and salary recoupment clauses. Salary can be escrowed and only released after internal or outside compliance audits.

That being said, I think Pitino would have won us a national championship and so would Sampson. Does that mean that Golden won't? NO! But when you double bogey the first hole which was a straightforward short par 4 (in light of the perception that it is a down year in the SEC), you are not off to a great start.

And forget about championships for now. They would have brought back respectability. We would be contenders as opposed to opponents that most programs pencil in as a most likely or a strong opportunity for a win.

 

My take? It is/was because we put the majority of our energies into the football side of things. Too many moving parts to tackle both in the same narrow time frame.