Coronavirus in the United States - news and thoughts

You sound like HRC regarding Benghazi…

So let’s play a game, if the big rail disaster in Ohio was due to company/human negligence does it make any difference as opposed to some natural issue?

 

No virus. Ergo, no lab leak. Going supposition is Hanlon’s Razor + rich and powerful people positioning themselves to capitalize on mass-panic. Ex: nobody needed to buy Bill Gates. He was just there.

 

I still find it hilarious we still have people who think masks work and wear masks voluntarily with all the data we have out now. It's almost like people won't admit they were wrong. Still waiting for even 1 person to admit they were wrong on masks. I mean I know I set the over/under at zero, but holy crap some of you people are next level ignorant.

 

What would be the “natural issue” on the rail disaster? It’s inherently a man-made disaster.

If you are suggesting attribution of specific blame matters as to “liability”, then sure, it matters. It matters for posterity. To get to the truth. But it really only matters-matters in terms of being actionable, so far as you can extract compensatory damages. That is obtainable from a domestic rail company or oil company up until the point of bankruptcy. The rail company operates within U.S. rule of law. You can fire individuals. Issue subpoenas. EPA can order site cleanups. We can impose fines and cleanup costs on the company, again up to the point of bankruptcy. “Fair compensation” is not obtainable for a global pandemic with roots in a nation outside the scope of U.S. rule of law. You could try sanctioning or engaging in tit-for-tat govt level trade tariffs as “punishment”, but then you are just hurting yourself. In reality, based on what we are seeing in the markets (Chinese manufacturing collapse) it seems the market is already self- correcting. It was a wake-up call to manufacturers that their supply chains were inflexible and too China dependent.

 

This reminds me of so many on here. Literally wrong for 3 years and still expecting people to take them seriously on this subject. Too funny.

 

No offense but your position just doesn’t seem logical. If people do something that causes 10 million deaths we want to know why. Primarily we want to know why in order to help prevent such events from happening again. Secondarily there are matters of accountability.

There is no doubt that many right wingers pursue this just for political reasons as they will take it to further their narratives. But then people on the left take the “anti”’position. So if right wingers think it’s a lab leak, then left wingers must argue the opposite and downplay anything that puts visibility on the lab leak scenario. This is no different than right wingers who like Putin because left wingers don’t, and anything liberals don’t like must be good.

 

His position makes perfect sense to me. The Ohio disaster is not analogous because we have the means to determine exactly who was responsible and more importantly we have the legal framework to hold them legally & financially responsible with punitive damages. Even if we do determine that this was a lab leak - it makes no difference. We aren’t getting shit from China. Short of a full blown war that we somehow win we do not have any way to make sure this doesn’t happen again.

 

I don’t think the Ohio thing is comparable either. But to argue that we shouldn’t try to figure out whether a lab leak happened, and how it happened is frankly baffling to me, and the only way i can square that circle is that it doesn’t make a difference falls into he typical partisan opposition construct.

 

I didn't say we shouldn't try to figure it out. We should try to figure it out. I'm just fairly certain it will be a fruitless endeavor - I don't see the Chinese giving us access to any information that paints them in negative light. And even if they did - and we're able to prove beyond a doubt that it was a lab leak - what then? What changes?

Going forward we plan for another virus outbreak - whether its another lab leak or another wet market source - the game plan is the exact same right?

 

Potential natural cause of a rail disaster? The ground supporting rail ties became unstable due to natural forces.

If COVID did originate in a Wuhan lab as many have suggested over the last few years (not just Pubs either) then the onus is on China to do a better job of keeping that type of research safer from getting out. Blaming it on a cross species jump takes any responsibility off China to make any changes to decrease the risk it happens again with an even more lethal contagion.
The world community could potentially address it in some fashion.

 

You don’t think that if there was clear evidence it originated in a Chinese lab and they covered it up the world wouldn’t join together in solidarity against China?

That’s their biggest fear, pissing off enough countries so that they be lame even more isolated and nobody wants to let them build cheap crap for the world any more.

Then again I may be far too optimistic.

 

Short term, the origin of COVID would change nothing. Regardless of it was man made, naturally occurring, or something that escaped from a lab, the response should be the same.

Long term, knowing the origin could potentially prevent future pandemics. The more we know, the better we can be prepared for the future.

It's unlikely COVID wasn't natural. There are no genetic markers of anything man-made. Doesn't mean it wasn't leaked from a lab. Zoonotic viruses (jump from one species to another) occurs in nature. And in a lab, may occur even more frequently, as animals are in closer quarters, and many animals that aren't always together can be lumped in one facility.

 

Maybe it would? Do we even want that? I tend to think having a robust trade with them helps keep the peace a bit. Cornered animals are dangerous.

 

I agree with you. However, I doubt many minds will be changed if it is finally determined to be a “lab leak” or zoonotic. Well, I doubt many people will publicly change their previous position on the source.

I think it was a lab leak and never thought the term “Wu-flu” was problematic. But maybe the term “CCP-Fauci disorder” would be more accurate.

 

Also viruses in a lab can be mixed or stimulated to mutate which would not show signs of direct man made manipulation.
So while that may be a “natural” process it’s not due to direct genetic manipulation.

 

I think point of origin is pretty important when you are investigating a fire. If you ignore point of origin in this case, then you accept millions of deaths that didn’t have to happen. Kinda sick to want to ignore point of origin on something like this.

 

QUOTE="okeechobee, post: 14910851, member: 32897"]I think point of origin is pretty important when you are investigating a fire. If you ignore point of origin in this case, then you accept millions of deaths that didn’t have to happen. Kinda sick to want to ignore point of origin on something like this.[/QUOTE]

If some of you want to start a "Go Fund Me" to go to Wuhan and get to the bottom of the China Virus, I'll contribute.
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Who is ignoring point of origin?

 

>>FBI Director Christopher Wray said that the agency has assessed that the origin of the COVID-19 pandemic was “most likely a potential lab incident” in Wuhan, China.

Wray told Fox News’ Bret Baier in an interview on Tuesday that the FBI’s work on determining where the pandemic originated is continuing, but many details related to the investigation remain classified.<<

>> Wray added that he believes that Beijing has been working to undermine the investigation from the United States and other members of the international community.

“I will just make the observation that the Chinese government, it seems to me, has been doing its best to try to thwart and obfuscate the work here. The work that we’re doing, the work that our U.S. government and close foreign partners are doing. And that’s unfortunate for everybody,” he said. <<

FBI director says origin of COVID-19 pandemic ‘most likely’ a lab ‘incident’ in Wuhan | The Hill

 

Good move.

Troops discharged after refusing COVID vaccine can now rejoin (militarytimes.com)

>>Service members who were forced out of the military because they refused the COVID-19 vaccination now have a path for rejoining, according to the senior enlisted advisers who testified before Congress today.

The process to rejoin will be similar to what a service member goes through after a break in service, assuming the service member meets the qualifications, said Sergeant Major of the Army Michael Grinston, in testimony before the House Appropriations subcommittee on military construction, veteran affairs and related agencies. He said the Army published its guidance this week.<<