Florida woman forced to give birth to a baby that will die immediately

I'd love to see this evidence of wild debunking. A toddler is a fully developed living, breathing, independent person who possess cognition. There's no comparison between it and an embryo.

If you thought they were the same, you'd be out there demanding we release every single pregnant woman in jail or prison. After all, I find it hard to believe that you support putting innocent toddlers in dangerous adult prisons. But you're not, because you recognize there's a huge difference.

P.S. Sperm is also a "precursor" to a toddler. Something tells me you're not seeking to imprison people who masturbate for murder.

 

well not all of them lol

 

I don’t know if you’re right or wrong but I think your take is a bit on the rough side. You seem to have a more compassionate stance on other issues.
I find it interesting.

 

Based on the reality of biology your analogy completely falls apart. A toddler can live completely independent of his/her mother. An embryo or early first term fetus is 100% biologically dependent on its mother. It cannot live independently of the mother. Additionally, one indicator of human life, brain activity doesn't occur until around the 16th week of pregnancy although there is no real consensus on the subject. From one paper on the subject:

The moment a baby’s brain starts to function, and other scientific answers on abortion

 

Thats sort of my point. We all vote for things that infringe on someone else.

I find that a weak argument regardless of the subject.

 

Nonsense. You make the assumption that they only way to support children and mothers in need is via the government. You also assume that just because someone may think the government needs less involvment that it means people do not want the government to help at all.

It is disingenuous and wrong. But your response here confirms you know it was a red herring.

 

A first trimester embryo/fetus does not feel pain, and it doesn’t have the cognitive awareness to comprehend pain.

Fetal Pain

Embryo and Fetus are scientific words accepted in the medical community ( me having to remind you of this is ironic). It is what they are. They are substantially different than a baby that has been born.

At the end of the day, there is no absolute right and wrong in this issue (or it varies from person to person). There is no universal right to life. We execute people. We murder children of terrorists. We let kids die that we could be saved due to resource allocation decisions. We pull the plug on brain dead people. We send soldiers to die in wars. We choose as a society who gets to live and die.

A toddler has cognition, feeling and can survive external to other humans (obviously they need to be fed and taken care ). It is universally accepted that they are life that has protection.

An early fetus does not have cognition, feeling, memory, a fully formed heart, ability to survive external to the mother, etc. Through most of history and most of the world an embryo and early term fetus do not have the same protections as a fully cognizant living human being.

Miscarriages are common. An early abortion is the same as a miscarriage. While an early miscarriage can be tragic for those involved, it isn’t the same as the death of a child, at least for most people.

For the record, I’m talking about first trimester abortions. When you get to 15 weeks to viability it becomes progressively less clear cut. My preference would be to maintain the Roe construct, but I could live with a 15 week construct, but with liberal exceptions for health, rape, incest, etc primarily determined by the family and the doctor.

 

While private sector/religious charities can provide support there is no way that they can replace governmental assistance. Some examples from different time periods and by the way I used to volunteer at food pantry.
US food banks, pantries struggle with donations, food prices in 2022
Local food pantries are in danger of running out of food
U.S. food banks run short on staples as hunger soars
And this is right on point regarding the limitation of private sector charities and the need for governmental assistance.

 

Compassion for who? Compassion for an unborn non cognitive non feeling embryo/fetus or a real life mother who will experience significant impacts due to being forced to give birth?

I feel differently for a post viability fetus and don’t think abortion should be allowed unless of mitigating circumstance (health, rape, incest, etc).

 

You're damn sure not going to help.

 

He's a dentist.

 

A dentist has enough training in biology and health to understand the difference.

 

There's a difference between the recognition that paying taxes means you'll have to pay for something you disagree with and imprisoning people based on a view of morality inextricably tied to your religious beliefs that much of the country doesn't share. The former is part of living in a lawful society. The latter is more characteristic of a theocracy than a pluralistic democracy and undermines the tenets of religious liberty foundational to this country.

 

They certainly have more than enough to understand Life…Your Life…Their Life began at conception separate from our Mothers and Fathers. Our own DNA. Our own chromosomes.

 

That might be wishful thinking, let's find out....

@g8trdoc:

Is this a chicken?

 

That poor woman is going to be forced to walk around and function for another 16 weeks in her every day life having to deal with she’s not going to bring a baby home. I can’t imagine how it must feel when well meaning people make remarks about the baby because she’s obviously pregnant.

 

Oh I get that from your plentiful posts on this subject.
I think you’ve made up your mind that a fetus is not a person and resembles nothing of the kind.
I can’t say that it is or it isn’t. I’m not really certain as you are in the subject. I’m also not saying you’re wrong.
All I’m saying is you have a softer tone in your words on other topics like say, the dilbert creator.

 

Again, by definition, they aren't separate from their mothers because they literally can't be separated from their mother at that stage. I know that is a useful thought for you, but it simply isn't true. Once born, they are a separate life because they can be...separated from a specific person.

 

You were absolutely a separate Life from our Mother at conception. Your Life began then with your own DNA. Your own chromosomes. The development process that has led to where you are today began when you were conceived.

An absolutely fascinating process!

 

No, I literally wasn't. Because, again, I couldn't be separated. If she died in November 1982, I'd be dead. If she died in July 1983, I'd be alive still.

Do you consider identical twins the same person at conception?