Some of these posters have managed to make Marjorie Taylor Greene appear well versed on the war. That is an accomplishment.
Ukraine is not a principal actor in this movie. They are playing the “cast of millions” part. This is and always has been a power struggle between the current iteration of western empire and its favorite nemesis: Russia. That is the context in which it is being prosecuted, and defines the terms upon which it will be decided. The Ontological Incoherence of American Imperial Exceptionalism
People: “Ha-Ha! Can’t even control the 20% of Ukraine that voted to join Russia!” Same people: “If Russia isn’t stopped now it’s going to roll into Poland and eventually to the boundaries of the old Soviet Union!”
The problem with that narrative is the America and the West in general would have never armed Ukraine if Putin didn't send the Russian army into that country. It was Russia not the US that instigated the war. Whether you're willing to admit it or not Putin's goal is the reconstitution of the Russian empire in the form of an amalgam of the former Soviet Union and Czarist Imperial Russia with an economy based on crony capitalism keeping in mind that under both the Czars and the Soviet Union Ukraine didn't not have an independent existence.
See my post #15184 as a sufficient response to this sort of nonsense. And also my post #15186 just above.
So Ukrainians despise Russians and Russian sympathizers. Who would have thought considering Russia has invaded Ukraine and committed war crimes in the process.
Which Ukrainians ? The Ukrainians who’ve been shelling other Ukrainian civilians for years or the Ukrainians who’ve been hiding their children from Ukrainian artillery for years ?
Is the inference that it was sourced from state sponsored propaganda? Of course you’d say that you dirty Western freedom lover.
So you're in effect suggesting that it's acceptable for Russia to use Ukrainian civilians as human shields or in other words after Russia captures and occupies Ukrainian towns they should be completely off limits to Ukrainian artillery because there may still be Ukrainian civilians is the occupied areas.
The Ukrainians who squared off against the Ukrainians they’ve been shelling are the Ukrainians who’ve been using human shields. Amnesty International pointed this out early on.
In my opinion, these arguments about who is in the right and to what degree (while interesting) became moot about a year ago. When Russia initiated its invasion of Ukraine, it decided to settle the matter by force of arms, in effect saying “might makes right.” The Russians say that Ukraine and everyone in it is theirs to do with as they like. Ukraine says otherwise, and we agree with Ukraine. Russia wants to settle by force of arms, so let’s oblige them. I’m okay for the moment with letting Ukraine do all the fighting with material assistance, but we need to get prepared for the eventuality that Russia is going to cross a line we cannot ignore. And I’m just not seeing that our government gets the idea that we need to be prepared for that.
Your first issue and you nailed it is NATO was already weak and depending on the US. Whether you like what President Trump pointed out or not has no bearing on the travails of NATO nations. NATO was already weak and Putin knew this was the case. The US is flung across the globe and in short the US has bitten off far more than it can chew. Being gullible swings both directions. Until otherwise proven we have to think for ourselves and take things in stride. Putin gave his reasons and tried to come to a diplomatic solution well before this war broke out. Simply stating the issue is about democratic rule and Putin wanting to take over Europe or NATO nations is being gullible. It's more than that and we all know it. The economic hegemony of the US is in peril. Without economic hegemony the US no longer enjoys the political stage in the world it currently holds. Will it be a triumvirate of economic powers or possibly more (US, China, Russia, Eurozone, etc...) that US will need to adapt to? That remains to be determined. One thing I am certain of. When the US can longer supply Europe with goods and services they want they will go elsewhere. It's time to lay all the cards on the table if there is any hope of convincing the American public that this is a war worth fighting. Europe is currently grappling with that question. That said no one is a saint in run up to this war.
I should have qualified that as western nations portraying the war is going swimmingly well for Ukraine but we know this not to be the case.
Putin had plans in place for the war to be mostly over in short order. Every day his country continues bleeding in futility is a victory for the democratic capitalist western world order.
Wow Baghdad Bob has nothing on you! So Comrade, if NATO was indeed as weak as you claim, Putin was outright lying about Russian border security and his stated fears of Ukraine joining NATO, even over NATO's and the US promises joining was not forthcoming. Comrade's claim of American economic peril is demonstrably laughable as it was Russia that invaded thus only the gullible could possibly NOT see that in fact, " the issue is about democratic rule and Putin wanting to take over Europe or NATO nations "
Human Verification One year later just a reminder how consistently wrong and overconfident tankies have been since the beginning.
