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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. Trickster

    Trickster VIP Member

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    George Will, that illustrious RINO, writes a brilliant column.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/02/22/ukraine-war-isolationists-hawley-republicans/

    "Putin can win only by Ukraine’s allies choosing to lose by not maximizing their moral and material advantages. He is counting on Western publics’ support for Ukraine being brittle, and especially on the multiplication of Josh Hawleys.

    "This freshman Republican senator and probable presidential aspirant exhorted the Jan. 6 mob moments before he did what it demanded, trying to block some states’ electoral votes. Now, continuing his pandering to the most primitive portion of the GOP base, this Missouri Metternich is opposing what no one is proposing — giving Ukraine a “blank check.” He evidently has not noticed the excruciating incrementalism of NATO allies’ aid to that valorous nation. Perhaps Hawley, advocate of nanny government “conservatism,” has been too busy promoting his plan to make the federal government not Big Brother but Big Parent, taking over parenting with a law against children under age 16 using social media.

    "Hawley, a caricature of a (rhetorically) anti-Washington demagogue, is a human windsock, responsive to gusts of public opinion. An Associated Press poll shows that public support for aiding Ukraine militarily has declined from 60 percent last May to 48 percent today, and to 39 percent among Republicans. So, Hawley says the U.S. policy of supporting Ukraine’s survival “has to stop.”

    "The invincibly ignorant Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-Fla.) has 10 co-sponsors, all Republicans, for a resolution calling for an end to aid for Ukraine. Their geopolitical thinking probably is of Tucker (“Has Putin ever called me a racist?”) Carlson sophistication. They might eventually join hands across the barricades with some progressives who begrudge every federal nickel not devoted to feeding government-dependent Democratic factions. But Putin’s congressional caucus will remain a mostly Republican rump.

    "Putin will be disappointed by the caucus’s anemia. Few Republican legislators would be comfortable in the company of the likes of Hawley and Gaetz. And as Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell said last week, “Don’t look at Twitter, look at people in power. … Look at the top Republicans on the Senate and House committees that handle armed services, foreign affairs, appropriations, and intelligence.” They support Ukraine."
     
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  2. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Agree. And I see that kind of wishful thinking on both sides of the political spectrum in this country once more.
     
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  3. Trickster

    Trickster VIP Member

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    Nice post! The only way I can understand opposition to our involvement in Ukraine is to realize that either the opponents don't understand Putin's goals, or it has become a political dog whistle requiring no understanding.
     
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  4. oragator1

    oragator1 Premium Member

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    George Will is my favorite columnist on either side of the aisle. Not because I always agree with him, but because he actually looks at an issue and then decides his view as opposed to all the jingoistic partisans out there. And once he does, he is always brilliant in how he articulates it.
    Just wish there were a whole lot more like him, but pandering to anger and fear is what sells, not actual thoughtful views
     
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  5. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    Maybe these will help to hit some of the more distant supply links and depots. Des Ukraine have any planes left to be able to launch these guided bombs?

    US Is Giving Ukraine a Long-Range GPS-Guided Bomb That Can Hit Targets Miles Away (msn.com)

    The US is providing Ukraine a long-range GPS-guided bomb made by Boeing Co. that’s capable of hitting targets 45 miles away, industry officials said.

    The Pentagon hasn’t formally acknowledged it’s sending the modified version of Boeing’s Joint Direct Attack Munition, saying only it would send “precision aerial munitions” as part of a $1.85 billion package announced December 21. But two people familiar with the matter confirmed the weapon is the Extended-Range Jdam, known as the Jdam-ER. They asked not to be identified because the detail hasn’t been announced.

    Pentagon spokeswoman Kelly Flynn said US won’t identify the munition, citing operational security. Jdam kits are used by the Air Force and US Navy and have been sold to over 26 countries.

    The Jdam-ER can be bolted on unguided bombs ranging from 500 pounds to 2,000 pounds. Once dropped, the bomb deploys wings, allowing it to glide up to 45 miles and tripling the range of the original weapon. The Extended-Range Jdam was developed in cooperation with the Royal Australian Air Force.
     
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  6. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    What is mister! yourself!
     
  7. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    “You can’t fight to the last Ukrainian because if I’m the last Ukrainian I’m going to Miami Beach!”

    — Zelensky—
     
  8. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    That could work if we provide the targeting data.
     
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  9. Trickster

    Trickster VIP Member

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    I feel the same way. A person of principle is hard to find these days.
     
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  10. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Or maybe they’re just not Murcan warmongers shot through with a visceral hatred for Russians.
     
  11. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    Russia supply chain is choked worse than Ukraine. They are running out of ammo and have cut off supplying Wagner due to shortages and rivalries.

    Russia's Military, Wagner Trade More Barbs Over Ukraine (msn.com)

    KYIV, Ukraine—A rift in Russia’s Ukraine military campaign showed signs of widening as Moscow denied allegations from paramilitary force Wagner Group that it was choking off the group’s ammunition supply.
    ..........................
    Yevgeny Prigozhin, Wagner’s founder, quickly responded with a voice message on Telegram denying the military’s claims that the group was still receiving ammunition.

    Though Mr. Prigozhin has criticized the Russian military establishment regularly since last year, his broadsides have reached a new level in recent days, calling to question whether Wagner, which has helped spearhead the Ukraine campaign in recent months, will continue in a prominent role.

    “The statement of the Defense Ministry is nothing more than just ‘spit’ towards Wagner,” Mr. Prigozhin said. “An attempt to hide their crimes.”

    Rift between private military and Kremlin forces widens; Russia can't produce enough arms for its needs: Live updates (msn.com)

    The rift between Vladimir Putin's military and the private army that has done much of the fighting in east Ukraine grew wider Tuesday as the Russian company's owner accused Kremlin officials of "high treason" and trying to destroy his force.

    Yevgeny Prigozhin, a millionaire with close ties to Russian President Putin, released an audio statement claiming Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu and Chief of General Staff Valery Gerasimov were handing out orders not to supply the Wagner Group with ammunition and not to support it with air transport.

    In recent weeks, Wagner forces have been taking heavy losses while making modest gains in the battle for control of Bakhmut, a crucial city in the Donbas. Prigohzin said the orders from Shoigu and Gerasimov “can be likened to high treason in the very moment when Wagner is fighting for Bakhmut, losing hundreds of its fighters every day."
     
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  12. Trickster

    Trickster VIP Member

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    Don’t “hate” Russians at all. They are wonderful people. I feel very sorry for them. Putin on the other hand is a despicable human being who is destroying that country. But, much like Trump supporters, many support him. The difference is Putin’s followers don’t get the facts, whereas Trumpers do (unless they only watch Fox), but ignore them.
     
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  13. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Aside from the insanity of trying to separate Putin and Russians, the war is indeed lamentable. Ukraine is dying. But grownups shouldn’t be allowed to say that Putin’s actions were ‘unprovoked.’ That’s just blind Murcan-ism babble.
     
  14. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    There is a time and a place for isolationism--Vietnam would have been a good candidate for it. The reasons for the U.S. fighting in Vietnam were ignorant hysteria over the spread of communism. If communism takes over an extremely poor country, there is little chance for that country to become a threat to the U.S. In fact, it is more likely to become a burden on communist countries that ARE a threat to the U.S. (the USSR poured a lot of money into Cuba to prop up that gov't over the years). Vietnam was a poor, rice-growing nation. There was no reason to get involved in their choice of government, even if it was a poor choice.

    Being in a proxy fight with Russia is a very good investment of capital to weaken a potential (and dangerous)enemy.
     
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  15. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Why would we? Ukraine is well on its way to winning without the help of U.S. troops fighting there. Russia is running out of tanks, ammo AND experienced, capable fighters. I was going to suggest that Russia was running out of brilliant generals, but it doesn't appear they had any at any point in this conflict. When Ukraine starts using western tanks, it could be lights out for Russia. Game, set, match.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2023
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  16. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Actually, I thought it was a good quote, but it should have gone with a picture of Putin. He is the one burning his nation to the ground (economically, anyway). Comrade Slipknot just used the wrong picture.
     
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  17. RealGatorFan

    RealGatorFan Premium Member

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    Putin can only win if Ukraine surrenders. There are no other options at this point for him. Pulling out of the nuclear arms treaty was a turning point. I have no idea if he will resort to using nukes on Ukraine. I think he won't use them on NATO unless he see no other alternative. I read a US congressmen said we are close to supplying Ukraine with fighter jets and missiles which I'm not sure is a good move. What happens if a Russian city were to get hit by a missile? Did we just start WWIII? Would that be enough for Russia to hit NATO targets?
     
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  18. GatorJMDZ

    GatorJMDZ gatorjack VIP Member

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  19. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    read that yesterday. great creativity by ht elocals removing street signs and painting arrows in wrong directions. Too bad Ukraine didn't have the hardware to just eliminate those convoys as it was a very target rich environment. A couple of warthogs or a single c130 gunship could have likely wiped them all out.
     
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  20. GatorJMDZ

    GatorJMDZ gatorjack VIP Member

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    That would have been fun to watch.
     
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