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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. Swamplizard

    Swamplizard VIP Member

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    That shows how much you pay attention Peaches (I think I read somewhere you are a woman?) Go back and read who allowed most of that which would be Gov Dicky Celeste who was .... a Democrat
     
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  2. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Translation: "My tiny town is more important than the biggest global war in the last decade or two, even if it has a potential to turn into World War III. Get over here and give me money now!"

    Maybe the mayor of East Palestine, Ohio needs a big slap in the face. He doesn't want help from federal agencies. He demands millions of dollars handed to him from the U.S. president.
     
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  3. swampbabe

    swampbabe GC Hall of Fame

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    The good folks of East Palestine, Ohio are big Trump voters. You wanted to get rid of regulations? You got it.

    You voted for Mike Dewine, who made political hay out of not returning Biden's phone call to offer FEMA assistance? There ya go.
     
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  4. GatorJMDZ

    GatorJMDZ gatorjack VIP Member

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    Literally every one of your takes is wrong. Russia was warned so that an errant Russian missile didn't inadvertently start WWIII. It was not a sign of weakness.

    Yours is the type of statement I would have expected to see on RT last night.
     
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  5. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    We never asked for Russia's approval for Biden to visit Kiev. We informed Russia ahead of time so that they would know that firing missiles into Kiev while Biden was there might get Russia into a hot war with the United States. It was a notification statement, not a question.

    We don't want a NATO/US/EU resolution to this war. We want a Ukrainian resolution to this war. It's their war! Give them the weapons they need and let them win it!

    Kiev has been very safe except for the occasional terroristic missile attacks, which can be stopped for a day or two with the proper notification. I don't see any sign of desperation. Many of Europe's leaders have visited Kiev and shown solidarity with Ukraine. What makes our leader different?
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2023
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  6. carpeveritas

    carpeveritas GC Hall of Fame

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    Open lines of communication have been there all along. As I recall Zelensky met with President Biden and addressed a joint house of congress on Dec 21,2022. Care to tell me what's changed since then that President Biden has to get off his duff and go visit Zelenskey in Ukraine? When it comes to the worst possible view of the situation people need to be informed of all points of view. The rah rah propaganda machine only goes so far before the reality of the situation settles in.

    'Ukraine is alive and kicking': Zelenskyy addresses Congress amid cheers, pledges of support - recap
    Clad in the green military garb of a war-time president, Zelenskyy first met with President Joe Biden at the White House Wednesday afternoon who pledged staunch and sustained support for Ukraine in its war with Russia:

    "You will never stand alone," Biden told Zelenskyy as both stood near each other during an afternoon news conference in the packed East Room of the White House.

    Zelenskyy's visit comes as Biden and Congress reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine by sending billions in humanitarian and military aid to the war-ravaged country, including nearly $2 billion for a strategically important Patriot Air Defense System.
    Rather then write my response twice this applies to your post as well @GatorJMDZ.
     
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  7. GatorJMDZ

    GatorJMDZ gatorjack VIP Member

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    When you call another poster "Peaches," where are you feeling it on the 1-10 tough guy scale?
     
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  8. Swamplizard

    Swamplizard VIP Member

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    Oh me? I am on the lower end probably a 1 or 2.
     
  9. oragator1

    oragator1 Premium Member

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    I was talking about us and Russia. We told them so a bomb lobbed at a Kiev randomly didn’t start WW3. It says that both sides are acting rationally. That’s good news for everyone.
    And if you honestly can’t se r the symbolic importance of the leader of the free world standing in the capital of a country under invasion to show solidarity and point out how Russia has failed miserably to this point, I really don’t know what else to say.

    none of that is rah rah propaganda, it’s reality.
    It’s also reality that the war has stalled, support is still strong but isn’t quite what it was last year, that Putin doesn’t appear to be as sick as claimed, US aid faces threats with MCarthy in charge in the house, a Russian coup isn’t imminent, and that this likely still has a long way to go one way or the other. Seeing a full picture isn’t that hard.
    On the other hand, you have spent the last year looking for reasons we would fail. And time after time have been shown wrong. Unless Europe capitulated because they were cold and I missed it. Or the dollar is no longer the reserve currency. Or WW3 has started. Or a whole host of other things.
     
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  10. jjgator55

    jjgator55 VIP Member

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    So do you have a link to that accusation, or did you read it on Facebook.
     
  11. carpeveritas

    carpeveritas GC Hall of Fame

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    The fact you and I disagree doesn't you any more right much less me any more wrong in what is happening in Ukraine.

    If you had read my original post I did state we informed the Russians and should have for the very reasons you point out. Obviously Russia doesn't want a WWW III and they are not interested in eliminating President Biden from the chess board inadvertently or on purpose.

    I don't voice my opinion looking for a pat on the back and if that upsets some people that's life. The rosy picture we keep being fed about Ukraine serves no purpose at all.
     
  12. Swamplizard

    Swamplizard VIP Member

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    I don't have FB but I can dig it up for you
     
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  13. oragator1

    oragator1 Premium Member

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    No one is saying that negative news isn’t allowed. And I never claimed I was right about anything, only that you seem to continually look for the worst way to frame anything that happens under the guise or being a counterweight.
    You said the Biden tip off was a sign of weakness when it was anything but. Russia should have been in Kiev a year ago now, and they aren’t close. The leader of the free world going there is a sign of strength not weakness; ether he told Russia or not.
    If your posts were more factual and less purposely negative, any news here would be welcomed, whether it favored Ukraine or not.
    Here’s one as an example, I will bet most agree with this:
    Russia reported today that their economy only shrank 2.1 percent in 2022. Even if you account for what is likely fudging of the number, they have held up better than expected. Though not as well as the west at this point, and many of their problems will escalate over time, given that shortages on technical parts will become more acute. Still, the sanctions haven’t yet devastated them as hoped/expected, which will make the next few months minimum harder than expected because Russia will have more funding sources. And if energy prices stay up, it’s a long term problem for the west.
     
  14. jjgator55

    jjgator55 VIP Member

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    So you got nothing. Okay, thanks for playing.
     
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  15. carpeveritas

    carpeveritas GC Hall of Fame

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    One Russia will fight the war at their own pace not one dictated by the US. stating where Russia should have been versus where they are could have been said about Afghanistan or any number of countless wars.

    As far as factual everyone has their take on the purpose of the visit. Yes support was pledged but other than that what else is of value? Nothing in my opinion. We are not going to hear anything about what was discussed behind close doors.

    We keep hearing the over time business that eventually Russia will be depleted of the resources necessary to continue this war and yet what we see is monetary and arm support packages being sent to Ukraine in smaller amounts than those before. Could it possibly be that Ukraine needs those arms and financial support because Russia has destroyed what has been given?

    We keep hearing of and implementing sanctions that were touted at the beginning to bring Russia to their knees crippling their economy to the point of unbearable degrees. The fact is Ukraine's economy has all but been demolished and if not for the charity of the US, NATO and European nations Ukraine would be on their knees. As is we continue to pay for all of Ukraine's expenses none of which will ever be repaid. Europe can no more afford this war than the US can afford to keep pouring money into all of Europe.
     
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  16. slayerxing

    slayerxing GC Hall of Fame

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  17. PITBOSS

    PITBOSS GC Hall of Fame

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    rosey picture?!? Human atrocities, bombing of civilians and soldiers getting chewed up.

    “Bakhmut is called a meat grinder where the average lifespan on the frontline of the fierce fighting is four hours,”

    "A lot of these families are poor," he said. "They don't have anywhere to go… even if they wanted to. So the reality is there still are a lot of civilians that are stuck in the middle of this."

    'Nonstop shelling': Former US Marine in Bakhmut, Ukraine, says fighting is 'chaotic'
     
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  18. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Wow. That canard, huh?

    “Russia has not failed to meet its military objectives on its timeline. It just has a timeline that makes sense to no objective military professionals. It’s, like, playing with Ukraine as a cat does a mouse. Further, it’s shrewdly culling its military of all the weak and disloyal soldiers as well as of its obsolete equipment. When future generations study the operational design of this conflict, only then will they see how Russia deftly feinted toward Kiev [sic] (making the deception look good with thousands of friendly casualties), then settled brilliantly into a long, glacial, bloody war of attrition. The Little Russians (née Ukrainians) even fell into the devious trap laid before them and conducted two counteroffensives designed to look like victories for them (Russia even abandoned entire formations of equipment and many of their dead to make it look good). And those idiots in the West could not see the sinister deception of Russia pretending it failed to achieve air superiority in over a year of combat. It would soon become clear that was just to give the Little Russians and NATO false hope. Victory would be coming any day now. All part of the plan.”

    I thought you said you were a veteran. No objective person with any kind of military training thinks the war is going as planned for Russia but we just cannot see the genius. Those of us less sanguine (me, specifically) concede that Russia might actually find a general capable of pouring piss out of a boot, kick its military into something resembling fighting shape, and start translating its enormous advantages into victories. But no one in this profession (past or present) is buying the “Russia is deliberately moving at its own pace” narrative.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2023
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  19. PITBOSS

    PITBOSS GC Hall of Fame

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    I’m surprised Ukraine is getting into this kind of knife fight in Bakhmut. Russia has shown their number of casualties isn't an issue. Ukraine: come back to fight another day?
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2023
  20. slayerxing

    slayerxing GC Hall of Fame

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    No way do they want to give Russia that kind of a "victory" though. Bakhmut has become a symbol of resistance. Symbols are important