Coronavirus in the United States - news and thoughts

Have to say Tilly that may be the post of the year so far

 

Meanwhile other states were not letting kids live outside of their own houses.
No school. No sports. No social. Valuable years lost to isolation.

 

People made that decision for themselves whether to take the shot.

You go tell a person who had covid in 2020 that they should be forced to take a shot unnecessarily. Shoot. You go tell Dokovic he is not welcome in this country because we are stupid and don’t understand science and medicine but prefer to engage in virtue signaling and authoritarianism. But you won’t. Because you know how stupid we look and our policy is by not allowing someone like Dokovic to enter this country to this day.

 

Tell me you have no idea how data science and how the CDC uses it without telling me you have no clue how data science and how the CDC uses it!

Trials are a great tool, but all trials are smalls scale tests used to determine the most likely outcome of what will happen when things go full scale. Trials also allow a small number to be tested and only a small number be effected if what is being tested leads to a bad outcome, and do this small scale, before a large number of people suffer. One known, potential issue of any trial is a negative outcome that has a very small number of instances that it evades the trial, and only shows up during full scale implementation.

This exact scenario happened with the J&J vaccine. All three vaccines went through multiple trials, and you are welcome to Google the Phase III results if you are interested. With the J&J vaccine, even with a few thousand in the trial, the clot that ended up killing 9 women of birthing age wasn't caught. The reason? The rate of incidence turned out to be 9 in 17 million (total number of Americans who received J&J shot). The clot only effected a small sub-section of the population (women 18-35), and even then, not all these women developed clots. Even a Phase III trial of just women in the target age group might not have found the clot issue.

But what did the CDC do with the data now that it was confirmed the J&J shot is deadly to a sub-section of the population? It pulled all J&J shots from the shelf! Why? Because no reason to take any chances, and we had plenty of supply of the other two, mRNA shots to cover our demand.

Now, if the CDC is willing to pull a shot that killed less than 1 in 1 million who received it, what do you think they would do if they found out the mRNA vaccines were causing problems like @QGator2414 suggests is happening? Turn a blind eye and allow it to happen? Unlikely. But the reality is, the data doesn't support Q's hypothesis. While the data does show an increase in cardiac events, real world data from hundreds of millions of people show there is an increase in cardiac events with COVID infection. There's also data from hundreds of millions who have received an mRNA vaccine that shows the rate of cardiac instances are reduced with even one dose of vaccine!

Now, why would anyone want to start up a trial with only a few thousand participants if and when we have full scale data from hundred of millions? There is no reason to do so, and no trial data will ever be more accurate than full scale implementation. The fact that we are even having this debate shows again, you have no clue how data science works, and how the CDC uses the data to make informed decisions on public health. The studies aren't junk science. The only junk around here is your unsubstantiated opinion.

 

Cute!

Not a victim at all. But I will stand up to bullies who offer nothing.

 

Your point about how cautious officials were when pulling the JJ vax is something I always go back to when hearing debate on this. It is a powerful point that gets forgotten often.

That was a remarkably small number and yet they pulled it from the rotation.

That tells me that they were being over cautious, not under.

 

I don’t doubt his beliefs are sincerely held, but at some point are people accountable for disseminating info that is clearly and demonstrably false? You can have debates about the level of effectiveness of vaccines, discussion of known side effects and whether or not people should be compelled for forced to take them, but to continue to propagate stuff that you have to be completely dense to believe is problematic. And it isn’t just that they have these harmful ridiculous beliefs, they are weirdly compelled to make it a core focal point of their lives spreading them. You don’t see these posters actively participating in most other threads. A vast majority of their posting is in this thread on this topic. I honestly can’t say I understand why these people are so solely compelled to propagate this ridiculousness.

Some of this stuff isn’t far from Margerie Taylor Greene conspiratorial idiocy.

In my case I have blocked most of them and decided to disengage. But unfortunately some of the otherwise reasonable people on here think they are doing Gods work by responding to every disinformation post and effectively giving life to the disinformation by giving it a perpetual audience.

 

Isn't it funny how that happens old men and women, keyboard bullies hide behind cute avatars and talk crap to those they don't agree with, not real discussions or real conversations just black or white republican or democrat hate or love just anger

 

All good and understood, but when the responses become personal in nature and stoop to a low level than there is no high ground to be claimed.

 

Yes, when someone proclaims the freedoms we have living in Florida, pointing out how our freedoms in this state are being curtailed is the argument.

This one is personal for me, our oldest son was prevented by the state of Florida from participating in the national finals for a competition because the host site for the national competition asked all competitors to show proof of vaccination. My son and all his teammates and all their coaches were vaccinated and willing to show proof of vaccination. The state of Florida prevented them from representing their school at the national finals they worked so hard to earn a spot in.

Being prevented from doing something you are willing to do seems different from freedom to me. Maybe I'm not understanding the word correctly. How are you defining freedom?

 

Sam Harris | #311 - Did SARS-CoV-2 Escape from a Lab?

Just finished this podcast it’s a discussion of 2 highly credible people who are leaning towards the origin being a lab leak. Again the evidence is circumstantial, but it is much more specific than prior articulations of the case I have heard.

I’m not a scientist but I’ll try to make the case

- The closest known strains to Covid 19 were from bat caves years ago that were brought to the lab

- There are characteristics and signature of the virus that more resemble a manufactured virus than anything known in nature

- A 2018 paper was recently discovered that there was a proposal to do exactly this type of stuff at Wuhan lab

- the counter case that it’s origin was natural is problematic because it’s unlikely that you could have seen it propagate in the city of wuhan. These caves where they get the bats and new strains for research are many hours away from Wuhan.

- Apparently in Wuhan this type of Covid research, including potential gain of function research (more loosely defined, not the Fauci highly restrictive definition) is done at safety level 2, which is a fairly low level of safety protocols, not the higher levels of 3 and 4, which they do have at that lab.

- There are quite a few prior examples of lab leaks in the past. Most were inconsequential, but it is speculated that the flu that killed 700,000 people in the late 70’s came from a lab.

To be clear they are not saying it is 100% certain and a natural link is still plausible, but given the evidence it seems lab origin more likely.

It doesn’t help that China refuses to release the strains that were being worked on, which used to be available but strangely taken down in late 2019.

 

Sounds like you should be more upset with the hosts who ran the competition than FL. Any place requiring proof of Vaccination without asking about NI was being stupid. So blame them, not FL. FL said no one can require proof of vaccination because they wouldn't accept previous covid + tests as proof of immunity. So yeah, FL did it way better than just about any other state. But I see now why you have such animosity towards DeSantis. Explains a lot.

 

Arguably getting personal is never helpful, but there are points where some speech can be so hurtful and inflammatory that a more severe response is understandable. At what point does intentionally propagating disinformation that has probably lead to hundreds of thousands of deaths in the US not inflammatory? Many posters here have friends and loved ones that have died from this disease.

 

Lab Escape Theory is just breathless, mindless distraction.

What escaped ? How did it escape ?

Same for Gain of Function. How do you make an imaginary virus even deadlier ?

 

There is no disease called Covid. No one gets a special plaque on their casket. People died from age-old causes, albeit in higher numbers due to the effects of panic and despair. In April 2020, for example, a NYC hospital was probably the most dangerous place in the world.

 

Is the insinuation here that the Biden/Harris admin is “forcing masks on kids?” Notice she’s not wearing one.

 

Yep. I have been hammered here for some time. If you jumped in now you would think I never supported giving these shots. But you can go back and look when they were first authorized. While I personally was not persuaded to take them due to multiple factors. I said those who were in high risk groups and that had not had Covid should take the shots. Now I do not think anyone should take the shot at this time based on where we are. And the vast majority of people agree. All you have to do it look at the acceptance rate for boosters to see that. But we have a cdc and fda still recommending kids take these shots.

 

To a degree, railing against government is a distraction. It was a false fear believed that set back humanity perhaps years. It was believed top-down. Together we descended into madness.

 

Definitely food for thought. Why would the CDC pull a vaccine that killed 9 in 17 million that took it, but completely ignore the "safety signals" for the other two vaccines that hundreds of millions have taken? The answer. The CDC wouldn't do this. The simple explanation the data doesn't' support the conclusions that the vaccine is more dangerous than infection.

 

Why would I be upset with the hosts? Everyone on the team and all the coaches were already in compliance with their request. It wasn't the hosts who prevent them from taking the place in the finals they earned in competition. It was the state of Florida that limited their freedoms. Of the 16 teams that earned a spot at nationals, only one was prevented from competing. The only team that didn't have the freedom to decide what they wanted to do was the team from Florida.

Again, maybe we are using different definitions of freedom, but I see limiting the choices that people have as taking away freedom, not giving them more freedom. How are you defining freedom?