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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. GatorJMDZ

    GatorJMDZ gatorjack VIP Member

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    Fighter jets would put a "relatively" quick end to this. Help give Ukraine air superiority over its own airspace with absolute guidelines that no US/NATO supplied jet can go into pre-2014 boundaries Russia or Belarus. It will save thousands of Ukrainian lives and save the US and its NATO partners billions of dollars in the long run.
     
  2. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    If I’m understanding what you’re trying to say, I don’t think reality matches your assessment of a free market. Going back to at least WWI, the countries with the most capitalist and least socialist economies (the U.S. being the highest example) have outpaced their allies in war goods production in every measurable way (total, percentage of GDP, relative to population, etc). And that’s still true today despite the corrosive effect of the creeping nature of socialism. Ukraine is very grateful today that socialism was not able to more fully dismantle our defense industry based on the myth of a “military-industrial complex.” We should be grateful, too. That is the only sector of our economy fighting this war, even if it is still doing it with one hand tied behind its back.
     
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  3. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Unless we’re willing to give Ukraine our top-of-the-line fighters (spoiler alert: we are not), then that will help but prove indecisive in my opinion.
     
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  4. Sohogator

    Sohogator GC Hall of Fame

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    I totally agree with that, but in critical industries the govt has a role in mandating a certain level of scalability on quick notice. Similarly we should partner with businesses of strategic importance, like Biden has done with computer chips. That is hardly socialism (never mind that some socialism is good ie SS). It’s not like weapons manufacturers have a shortage of profits.
     
  5. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    imo, the tone was that legit military targets were not confined by borders

    seeing more and more about f-16's on the near term horizon

    F-16s, longer-range missiles could help Ukraine beat Russia, U.S. general privately tells lawmakers - POLITICO

    MUNICH — The top U.S. general in Europe is quietly telling American lawmakers that giving Ukraine advanced Western equipment — such as F-16 fighter jets, drones, and long-range missiles — could help Kyiv rule the skies and bolster its own offensives against Russia.

    In a Friday morning closed-door briefing with more than 10 senators and House members, Gen. Christopher Cavoli was asked if F-16 fighter jets would help Ukraine win the war against Russia. He responded: “Yes,” according to five people in the room who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss a private session.

    The F-16 question was part of a larger discussion over the conduct of the war and what Kyiv needs to succeed in its plans to go on the offensive, and blunt Russian offensives across hundreds of miles of front lines. Cavoli said Ukraine needs longer-range missiles to allow its forces to strike Russian positions from farther away, putting headquarters and rear supply lines at risk, which would help disrupt the Russian war machine inside Ukraine.
     
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  6. Sohogator

    Sohogator GC Hall of Fame

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    I think the better investment is in MIGS that they are familiar with, Drones and artillery that can go 300 miles rather than the HIMARS 90. Russia is getting a free pass on staging just outside of the range of HIMARs
     
  7. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Going to have to be careful how I answer this. Certain defense industries can be cranked up quickly if the price is right (say 5.56mm ammunition or even 155mm artillery shells). You could probably be exporting an an appreciable quantity increase within a month. Others (not going to specify but also not hard to intuit) would cost not only more money but take a great deal of time to appreciably increase output. Let’s say a year. It’s been a year. Said industries could have been doing a lot more by now but are still at near-max production. That was a political decision of “hope” that the war would not last a year. The nature of our economy did not have as much to do with it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2023
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  8. Sohogator

    Sohogator GC Hall of Fame

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    OK I guess. You certainly seem to have more knowledge than I do wrt…
     
  9. citygator

    citygator VIP Member

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    Would explain the postings.
     
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  10. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    We’re both in agreement we need to mobilize the economy to fight this war. Whose fault it is that we haven’t is a possible point of disagreement, but in my opinion whose fault it isn’t doesn’t matter as long as we fix the situation directly.
     
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  11. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    Not good for the Western alliance. The majority of the party fully support Ukraine and understand the significance of that struggle for our values. But it looks like that those running for President perceive that at least for primary purposes, they have to placate the Russians. That may pull the party over.



     
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  12. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

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    uft - I'm having a little heartburn with "Myth of the Military Industrial Complex" ........ so, the President of The United States and The Supreme Commander of Allied Forces in Europe did not know what he was talking about? Hmmmmm
     
  13. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    I’ll explain that in detail when I have a few minutes. It’s an interesting story.
     
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  14. Swamplizard

    Swamplizard VIP Member

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    Awesome our "president" visited the most corrupt country in the world to do what? How about going to Ohio maybe putting America first stop promising money to Ukraine
     
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  15. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    Thanks for your contribution Vlad
     
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  16. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

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    If General Patreus is to be belived, he advised, this past weekend, that the discussion about F16's (allied air power) is no discussion AT ALL.

    YES NATO will supply combat aircraft.

    Why - THERE IS NO Russian MIG jets left in that part of the World to support Ukraine. They are all USED UP.

    ANY airpower (aircraft) most certainly will come from NATO, no other choice.
     
  17. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    All Western leaders have to make the pilgrimage to Kyiv.
     
  18. Swamplizard

    Swamplizard VIP Member

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    Seems a little light on the battlefront to me I mean I am no war specialist but as I have said before this looks a little calm for a war

    Ukraine Live Cams
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2023
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  19. Swamplizard

    Swamplizard VIP Member

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    Well aren't you cute. Get bent
     
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  20. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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    As opposed to visiting Moscow as Michael Flynn and Jill Stein did in 2015 (see pic)in and Marjorie Taylor Greene and the rest of the MAGA wing of the Republican Party would like to do now. Although this link is almost a year old little has probably changed.
    Meet the pro-Putin Republicans and conservatives - Republican Accountability
    [​IMG]
     
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