Haley to announce presidential run

And then there is this.
Ann Coulter tells Nikki Haley to ‘go back to your own country’ in racist rant against new GOP presidential candidate
A certain segment of MAGA nation will never vote for Haley for the reason articulated by Ann Coulter who obviously isn't bound by the usual norms of political correctness decency. A lot of so called conservatives probably feel the same way. Not sure if anyone remembers back in 2017 or 2018 Trump had negotiated a deal with Pelosi and Schumer under which they would support funding of the Great Wall of Trump in exchange for amnesty for "Dreamers", Americans who originally entered the country illegally as children and have lived here for almost all of their lives. After Coulter issued a statement to the effect that the comprimise would be political suicide for Trump he backed off and the deal collapsed. Seems Coulter hasn't changed and that a certain segment of Republican voters probably feels the same way.

 

First, you missed the opening predicate. I said, definitively, that there was Russian interference. The investigation was conclusive. We haven’t there.

My point is that based on numbers that actually voted— effectively the same turnout firRepublicans as four years before, but a dramatic drop in voter turnout for Dems, I believe that the Russian interference did not cause Hilary to lose the election. I think Hilary lost the election because she was uninspiring, if not unlikeable, to many people.

It certainly is fair to disagree. I haven’t said that IN FACT the interference had impact. But, I believe the numbers bear it out.

 

Yeah, Haley was born in South Carolina, but she's not American enough for Coulter. Very reminiscent of what Trump said about the squad.

 

Yeah, not exactly a classy move by Coulter.

I think Haley was more than gracious towards the Confederate Flag crowd. She didn't judge them, she just thought it was the best decision moving forward. Coulter responds mocking her in a nasty way and telling her to leave. You don't treat people that way.

 

The chief difference is that the Squad seems to spend an awful lot of time complaining about how terrible America is.

I don't see that with Haley. I don't know what other motivation Coulter could've had for saying that apart from the fact that she comes from Indian descent. If she'd like to clarify her comments, I'm all ears.

Maybe she can make the argument that disagreeing with the Confederacy and removing Confederate iconography and flags, is hating America and/or American history. I think that line of argument is absurd, however.

 

Sounds like Haley is all-in for WWIII.

No thanks.

 

I understand your point, I just disagree with it. Flipping votes by the use of propaganda would be quite difficult. Getting people disgruntled enough to not vote would be a far easier task. Both would ultimately accomplish the same goal, it would just take more no shows than flips, obviously.

 

People on the left and right criticize various aspects about America, although not necessarily the same aspects or for the same reasons. But what does criticism have to do with Trump saying they can go back to where they came from?

Omar was the only one not born in the United States. AOC was born in New York. Tlaib was born in Michigan. Pressley was born in Ohio. Someone on the right could say, "Bernie Sanders should move to Cuba if he likes socialism," but even that isn't the same thing. People telling racial or ethnic minorities to go back to where they came from isn't new. It's a way of treating them as guests who should shut up and just be happy to be here. Coulter is more overt in her bigotry against Haley, but the message is obvious in both cases.

 

Simple, there are two possible explanations for Trump's quote:
1. This was Trump's way of saying, "this is America, love it or leave it;" or "if you hate America so much, then leave."
2. This was Trump's way of saying, "you suck, go back to wherever it is you came from (making the assumption that because someone is a person of color, they must be an immigrant or they must be treated like an immigrant or an outsider unlike other immigrants)

The second reasoning is a lot worse than the first. I don't see how you can make the argument that Coulter was making the first argument with Haley, but maybe I'm missing something.

I'm not saying Trump certainly did not use the second reasoning to be fair, but he has a certain degree of plausible deniability.

 

At this stage, the only plausible excuse for Trump is that his thumbs have Tourette Syndrome.

 

Coulter's rant is just a dog whistle that if you don't agree with her or her ilk, you are not a real American. Horseshit!

 

So many different kinds of people are associated with Republicans, while simultaneously trying to lead the party in their own direction, it's no wonder the party always fails to have a cohesive coalition.

Like 25% of the party (both in the culture and in DC) always wants to run the show despite being in the minority. They'd rather die martyrs against other Republicans than actually unite in favor of (or against) a cause.

Groupthink is a terrible thing, but it has its perks when it comes to power in a legislative system where power is earned in numbers. Republicans need to understand that they don't even need a hive mind to establish a successful coalition. All they need is to air their grievances privately, unite behind leadership in the party (even if that leadership could be better), and refuse to be selfish (don't leverage your position as the last 10-20 Congressmen holding out just to try and get whatever specific agenda items you want, and some of that is a failure on Republican leadership for enabling a tail wagging the dog situation).

 

It seems like you are bending over backwards to give him a possible out. Why? Below is what he actually said - clearly treating them as outsiders despite the fact that: (1) three out of the four were born in America; (2) all four are American citizens; and (3) they are quite literally sitting members of Congress who are elected by other Americans to opine on all sorts of things.

Trump’s racist tirades against "the Squad," explained

So interesting to see “Progressive” Democrat Congresswomen, who originally came from countries whose governments are a complete and total catastrophe, the worst, most corrupt and inept anywhere in the world (if they even have a functioning government at all), now loudly......
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) July 14, 2019

....and viciously telling the people of the United States, the greatest and most powerful Nation on earth, how our government is to be run. Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came. Then come back and show us how....
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) July 14, 2019

....it is done. These places need your help badly, you can’t leave fast enough. I’m sure that Nancy Pelosi would be very happy to quickly work out free travel arrangements!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) July 14, 2019

 

I would say all of that paired with arrogance that she thought she had the election in the bag while the Trump Campaign was focused on winning each of the places they knew they needed in order to win.

 

Yet here you are.

 

He 100% should've chosen his words more carefully. He doesn't do himself any favors with his mouth or his Twitter account.

I'm just saying he may have been implying the old "America, love it or leave it."

Taking the words at face value and just based on how they were written, you can make an easy case for the worse interpretation of the two I mentioned. But here's the thing about Trump, and I know this is going to sound unfair but it's just true: he is not a polished speaker, politician, or lawyer. He does not choose his words carefully and he often-times behaves like a jackass. You have to parse through the point he's trying to get across with his words. He also isn't the kind of person to apologize for saying something wrong because he has one of the biggest egos I have ever seen.

These things can be a blessing and a curse. In some ways, he's untouchable because he is who he is, he knows who he is, and he doesn't apologize for it in a society where people feel like political correctness has run amok, and about half of the country feels muzzled. He has such a window with his base because the opposite extreme (the opposite problem that is political correctness) has gone that far.

On the other hand, he comes across like a jerk to essentially all of the people who don't see where he's coming from (and even many members of his own base). He's an easy target for his political adversaries to rile up the base of those adversaries because he doesn't choose his words carefully and he'll almost never apologize for failing to choose his words carefully.

 

I obviously don't like him, but I think his level of sophistication was underestimated in both parties from the beginning. To the extent he was successful in business, it was largely because he is really good at branding. He chooses his words carefully IMO and knows what motivates people. He uses smaller words these days on purpose, which you can see based upon his old interviews. And he hasn't earned any benefit of the doubt when it comes to these issues. Even many Republicans were calling him out for his racist dog whistles but felt they had to back off once he became the nominee. I'm positive that he knows exactly what he's doing.

 

Ironically until the last 15 years or so Republicans were very good at unifying around a candidate and set of causes. There has always been a minority that demands a degree of ideological purity but they could be managed and mostly would get in line. Now, starting with the Tea Party, that minority has grown and ideological purity has morphed into cultural purity has effectively taken hold of the party.

 

I don't know if they've "taken hold of the party" but they certainly have the power at times, which is a huge problem.

Folks like McCarthy need to start making it a point to be quicker to make a deal with Democrats than to cave to the demands of a group of 10-20 Republicans who would rather be ideologically pure martyrs than actually get anything done. I'm not saying you should always toe the party line, necessarily. But when even the most inconsequential things are being contested like who the Speaker will be without a viable proposed alternative, yeah... that's definitely that minority group going way too far.

 

No I stand by they’ve taken hold of the party. That doesn’t necessarily mean they have the majority, but they have a sizable minority that holds the most power.

Going back to the GWB years there was a coalition of diverse Republican interests that would routinely meet to coordinate their strategy. He problem was Republican candidates would always promise things they were incapable of delivering because of the realities of electoral and bipartisan politics. The base became increasingly disenchanted and grew and became wary of compromise when the tea party came along. Then Trump came along and co-opted it and took on more of a cultural slant than an economic one.

You only have to look at Elise Stephanik as an example of what is wrong with the Republican Party. She was kind of a moderate-ish candidate starting out and she went full MAGA and now is one of the highest ranking members of the House. That is a literal example of the fringe base “taking hold” of the party.