No, Slaves Didn't Build This Country

so it's a federal holiday like juneteenth, yeah, right.

 

Oh look, our resident theocrat is delving in subtle antisemitism and not-so-subtle white-supremacist denialism.

 

And when you try to shift the discussion away from those acts of oppression in our history toward relative blame/harm of the oppressed, you are making mine.

 

I'm about as embarrassed of the accusation of white-supremacist denialism as you are of the accusation of Q-Anon denialism. It doesn't faze me. Also, antisemitism and white supremacy are totally fine in a world without the Judeo-Christian God because it is not wrong to treat a bag of biological material as if it is just a bag of biological material if that is all it is. And people indoctrinated into the critical theory cult call people "bodies." "Black and brown bodies." It is part of the cult language of critical theory, and it acknowledges a far lower view of humanity from which the great and terrible offenses of "white supremacy" and "antisemitism" cannot be derived. If man is just a body, then it doesn't compute that "white supremacy" and "antisemitism are the great heinous realities to be spit at and shamed as the left says they are.

It is a weak argument to come at someone with "white supremacy" and antisemitism, first because it is blatant ad hominem and name calling, but second, because those things cannot be substantiated as objectively evil outside of the biblical worldview. To even make those accusations while simultaneously denying the God who makes moral and ethical judgments meaningful and rational is self-defeating. Your argument is irrational.

 

I laugh at the notion that a person must believe in God or The Bible to be good or moral. If you are only good or moral because you are fearful of God's wrath, that says a lot more about you than it does anybody else. You and your argument are irrational.

 

You are misrepresenting the argument...good and moral are meaningless products derived from collision of particles without the existence of God. There are lots of things that result from particles colliding, and we don't care about most things that are the products of particles colliding. Morality and goodness join the long list of other things that exist, but are not necessarily important if God does not exist. And for your tactic to work, these things have to be very important...of the highest level of importance of anything that exists in the universe.

The idea that heinous super evil forces exist in the world, and people came to incorporate this belief into a godless ideology is baffling to me. There is major cognitive dissonance involved in that.

 

Nonsense. Societies that didn't worship the Judeo-Christian God had laws. People don't need to believe in some higher power to have empathy and compassion.

You're telling on yourself if you think people need religion to know right from wrong and to have empathy and compassion. I don't need to fear what'll happen to me in the afterlife to act right.

If by "heinous super evil" you're talking about the notion of white supremacy, I can say that people didn't incorporate that belief into a godless ideology. Many of the white supremacists in this country's history believed in the same God you do. And they found justification in The Bible for treating persons of color as second-class citizens and even property.

 

A distant relative of ours, per my father, was the largest slave owner in Alabama (which is where all my relatives are from) in the mid 1700’s. My father, a Roosevelt progressive, was immensely ashamed of that.

 

Excellent post. As I’ve said many times here, even a cursory student of history will recognize that income inequality will destroy at least democracy. Indeed, a strong argument can be made that those controlling 90% of the wealth in this country are currently doing so through the Republican Party. This is not a criticism of conservatism, but of today’s republicans.

 

You are still not understanding the argument. People don't need to believe in God to play World of Warcraft, play League of Legends, watch the Kardashians, or drink at the bar either. People doing X or caring about X by no means makes X important or universally binding on others. You have yet to make a convincing argument that substantiates why morality and goodness matter more than other meaningless things like the above that people care about. The fact that people do something or care about something does not ipso facto make it meaningful or important as is illustrated by my other examples. So, my point still stands. You have failed to refute the argument up to this point.

You are still not understanding the argument. You can play Yugioh Cards without believing in God. You can play Yugioh Cards, and you can boast about how because you played them without believing in God, they are important now. And you can argue that irrefutably and universally makes Yugioh cards meaningful and important.

And everyone could laugh at you for making that argument. That is how silly your argument is. That is the strength of your argument. Go back reread the previous paragraph and substitute "morality and goodness" for "Yugioh cards" and that is your argument. It is a poor argument since no one would be convinced by it if they did not already believe the conclusion of the argument to begin with.

So, going back to Yugioh cards...there was also a generation who believed in God that did not play Yugioh cards. They must be really evil people since they did not play Yugioh Cards like we do.

Go back reread the last two sentences and substitute "white supremacy" for Yugioh cards. That is your argument. Up to this point you have failed to make a meaningful or convincing argument as to why morality and goodness are important.

 

I could say the exact same thing about worshipping God and having faith. Yet, those things are important to people like yourself. Why? Because you personally attribute value to it. And we know your argument has no legs because there have been plenty of civilized societies in our world's history that neither predominantly practiced Christianity nor Judaism.

1. I haven't felt the need to demonstrate the evilness of white supremacy because I assumed you're not arguing against the idea that white supremacy is evil. If you indeed do not understand why white supremacy is evil and are disputing that, I'll leave it to you to figure out the answer.

2. Morality and goodness are important because a society cannot function without them. They are the very fabric of a civilized society. If people act only out of greed and selfishness and possess no empathy or compassion, a society will turn into a lawless, chaotic place where your only security is having more might than another person. We humans, recognizing what a terrible dystopia that sort of place would be, have evolved in a way to avoid that problem.

Asking why we've evolved in that way is like asking why bears haven't. The answer is I don't know. You try to fill your uncertainty with God. I simply accept the uncertainty. But ultimately, the importance of morality and goodness isn't in doubt. They are what have allowed us to build everything humanity has, and we (almost) all implicitly recognize that we need them to continue to thrive and must rely on each other to abide by these values. The question of why did humanity receive these gifts and not bears or lions or turtles is one I cannot definitively answer. But neither can you, despite your unyielding belief in the answers your religion offers.

 

It’s interesting that a conservative mantra of “pull up your bootstraps” comes from the same mindset that enslaved humans for free labor, and fought a war over it..

 

It’s also interesting how the left can’t let go of the past. Even when it’s clear that the best and healthier course is to live in the present.

 

I suspect we’re all in agreement that many cultures built this country.

 

The difference being of course that one group was forced to do it.

 

So slaves helped to build this country? If you're acknowledging that, what's the point of the OP? I haven't seen anybody on this board say, "Only slaves built this country." I also haven't noticed anybody credible saying that outside of this board.

 

A bunch of Jewish Germans fleeing Hitler for America invented white supremacy in the 1930s and 40s, very interesting

 

apparently there was a song during a cartoon ...

 

Pretty sure that happened to native people.