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The battle for new college

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by slayerxing, Jan 12, 2023.

  1. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Hall of Fame

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    Let me guess... Greek Life dominated?

    Which undergraduate groups receive the most funding and resources that are not directly tied to Greek Life?
     
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  2. slayerxing

    slayerxing GC Hall of Fame

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    First of all you can’t waive Greek life away. They control the student government purse strings and that’s a cool 30 mil a year. Second is grad student council. The grad student union raises their money through dues.
     
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  3. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Hall of Fame

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    I'm not waiving it away, I'm contextualizing the most powerful groups on campus. The "big boys on campus" if you will. Just because DEI isn't necessarily #1 doesn't mean it's not near the top. Though I may be wrong, I believe it's basically just behind Greek life affiliated organizations and events if we're talking specifically about the undergrads.
     
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  4. slayerxing

    slayerxing GC Hall of Fame

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  5. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Hall of Fame

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    You're marketing to students who are already all in on the DEI stuff (regardless of race/ethnicity/sex/sexual orientation, some of the people they're marketing to is heterosexual White male "allies").

    Those students take those classes, develop relationships with their professors in some cases, are given a strong push by the school in DEI-based extracurricular activities, are put in positions of influence, other students are attracted to them because they hold power and influence, and the ideology spreads like wildfire.
     
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  6. QGator2414

    QGator2414 VIP Member

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    Oh the hyperbole LOL!!!

    I want to slow the influx of all those coming to the dominion lol!!!

    There is a reason DeSantis is the best governor in the Country. And why people want to move and live here. It is comical seeing some up in arms over it.
     
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  7. slayerxing

    slayerxing GC Hall of Fame

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    for the entire student body I showed you the primary platforms. Dei barely cracks the radar except for change party. Which hasn’t been able to win barely anything in student senate. Dei isn’t unimportant but it doesn’t dominate campus.
     
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  8. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Hall of Fame

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    I'm looking through UF's Summer B/Fall 2022 Student Organizational Operational Budget from student government.

    African Student Union: $2,667.
    Arab Students' Association: $4,435.77
    Asian American Student Assembly: $8,350
    Asian American Student Union: $7,850
    Hispanic Student Association: $13,000
    Islam Appreciation Month Committee: $9,850
    Islam on Campus: $9,390
    Pakistani Students' Association: $2,852
    Society of Hispanic Professional Engineers: $9,146.33
    Women's Student Association: $3,950
    Korean Student Association: $2,980
    Filipino Student Association: $3,450

    To be completely fair, they represented groups I identify with as well pretty substantially:
    Cuban American Student Association: $3,100
    Catholic Gator Coalition: $5,138

    Why am I posting these numbers? Look at the rest of the organizations receiving student government money. Do some compare favorably? Yes. But when combining all of these groups together the money being pumped into groups based on gender/racial/ethnic/religious identity, you really can't compare. These are powerful and influential groups on campus. They're not on par with Greek Life which receives tremendous private funding as well, but they receive a lot.

    https://sg.ufl.edu/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/Summer-B-Fall-2022-Student-Organization-Budget.pdf
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2023
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  9. gtr2x

    gtr2x GC Hall of Fame

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    Also a UF finance major and my only memory of politics would be heavy doses of that noted liberal, Milton Friedman. o_O
     
  10. slayerxing

    slayerxing GC Hall of Fame

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    this is laughable. The total budget for the year which you can see on that website is over 22 million. Some of those clubs have marginal participation. And you are claiming that this pittance is somehow symbolic of some huge influential dei movement? Having worked on campus both for and IN student orgs I can tell you unequivocally they are not influential on the vast majority of the student body. Most of that money is then used for parties and tailgates lol.
     
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  11. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Hall of Fame

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    Having somewhat recently gone to UF I can tell you they are, especially when compared to non-Greek life organizations.

    Listen man, we can play the statistics game all day. You'll show it's a small piece of the overall budget (that probably involves all sorts of things), I'll show organizations centered around racial/ethnic/religious/gender identity take up a tremendous portion of the Student Organization Budget, which I think is a fairer comparison because you're comparing organizational funding to organizational funding. I shared the budget, I encourage others to check it out. If you just look at the right hand column, if you see a number that pops off the screen then scroll to the left to see what organization it's going to, you can guess it's probably going to one of these organizations.
     
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  12. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer VIP Member

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    I'm quite confused how you think the prevalence of organizations centered on a shared identity prove whatever your hypothesis is on DEI. Organizations are typically based on either a shared identity or interest.
     
  13. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Hall of Fame

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    The only one I can make a case that doesn't really belong lumped in there is religious organizations for reasons I think we both acknowledge:
    1. Religion is far from a historically "marginalized" group necessarily. It depends on which religion you're talking about. So that's a case against it in the DEI context.
    2. Religion is a choice, not something you're born with.

    But the reason why it's relevant is because it's acting as though race/ethnicity/gender is almost this central identity trait, where successes and failures can be boiled down to circumstance based on that identity. Again, I think religion makes more sense because it's a literal set of rules and values you're subscribing to. But race/ethnicity/gender is not something you can control, it's just something in your very skin and DNA. And these are the types of organizations that get a push from DEI initiatives to make students from marginalized groups feel welcomed, as though they otherwise aren't welcomed.
     
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  14. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer VIP Member

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    I don't know what a "central identity trait" is, but based on how our society is structured, I would speculate that those things plus sexual orientation and religion are "central identity traits." As for those organizations, they're voluntary. I'm not sure how it's wrong for students to want to voluntarily associate with people who have a shared identity, nor do I see the relevance of it to whatever point you're making about DEI. In fact, what point are you making about DEI?
     
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  15. slayerxing

    slayerxing GC Hall of Fame

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    I don’t want to downplay how important these clubs are at times for connecting people of color on campus, they are super important for that. But not very influential. And there is plenty of research that indicates people of color do NOT feel inherently welcomed at primarily white institutions.
     
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  16. slayerxing

    slayerxing GC Hall of Fame

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    fine ignore stats if you want. Your argument still doesn’t hold water when you consider what the clubs spend money on. It's not like they are investing into activism, or advertising, or much of anything besides just hanging out and having fun. I’ve been a student myself several times since the late 90s, (3 times), served as an advisor for student organizations, and have taught or advised literally thousands of students at UF over the last 20 years. And I can tell you, that your interpretation of these "dei student orgs" is out of touch with reality. They can be influential and very important for the people that participate, especially people of color. But they are not particularly influential on campus and do not control any levers of power.

    When I worked with the grad student leadership - we tried numerous times to involve "dei based organizations" in student activism - especially around issues of housing, and grad student pay. They barely got involved! They were too busy fighting with UF over accessible parking!!!! Lol. So when you talk about how influential they are, and how they plant seeds and influence other students, all I can do is LAUGH! I still remember some of them complaining at public comment to the BOT about teaching on campus during covid and how persons of color were more likely to be negatively effected. No one cared. There was no uproar on campus. Because the very next person to complain to the BOT was a faculty member and that got a lot more attention.

    Maybe you saw something as a student that really pissed you off, I don't know. But I can tell you you have a fundamental misconception about how campus works, and what the levers of influence are on MOST students.
     
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  17. slayerxing

    slayerxing GC Hall of Fame

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    I want to add that none of this DEI discussion in any way justifies what DeSantis is doing state-wide. Especially as it relates to attempting to influence what is taught, how it is taught, and trying to control who teaches it. The attacks on tenure and shared-governance hiring practices WILL HURT the educational mission of Florida's universities. And it won't resolve ANY of what you are talking about. In fact, it will probably make it worse, as people tend to resist when they are attacked like this.

    I would expect there to be a lot of malicious compliance across the SUS
     
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  18. slayerxing

    slayerxing GC Hall of Fame

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    DeSantis puts into action his plan to end "woke activism" (insidehighered.com)

    The Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression called DeSantis out, noting in a news release that while it “supports prohibiting the use of all political litmus tests in admissions, hiring, and promotions,” DeSantis is in danger of trading “one orthodoxy for another” in an effort to eliminate so-called loyalty oaths.

    FIRE also weighed in on plans to expand the power of presidents over faculty tenure.

    “Giving university presidents expansive power over hiring, firing, and post-tenure review jeopardizes academic freedom,” FIRE’s statement read. “The more power that one individual has to call the shots on campus, the easier it is for political forces—be they donors, politicians, students, or activists—to dictate the range of acceptable ideas and voices. Administrators with more authority will be pressured to use that authority in ways that today’s political climate cannot forecast.”

    Other items on the agenda—such as eliminating the college’s Office of Outreach and Inclusive Excellence—were pushed off for consideration until the next board meeting. Board chair Mary Ruiz—a holdover trustee who stepped down from the chair position during the meeting—cautioned trustees against getting ahead of the governor and State University System of Florida, given the changes promised by DeSantis, while other trustees argued it was time to lead on rejecting DEI.

    While the removal of the president prompted student outrage and chants of “shame” from the audience, it fell well short of the stated intentions of one newly appointed DeSantis trustee.

    Eddie Speir, who runs an independent K-12 school in Florida, wrote in a newsletter this week that his plan to fundamentally reshape NCF includes asking legal counsel to weigh in on whether trustees could declare “a financial emergency” that would allow them to terminate the contracts for all faculty, staff and administrators and immediately rehire only those “who fit in the new financial and business model.”

    Speir’s plans for a massive restructuring, however, did not make it onto the agenda for Tuesday’s meeting.

    The NCF next board meeting is scheduled for Feb. 28.

    -- These people are nuts.
    Here is more

    DeSantis’s Higher-Ed Push Just Got Bigger. Fresh Resistance Is Starting to Bubble Up.

    On Monday, the United Faculty of Florida told Florida Atlantic University’s interim provost that, in an attempt to comply with Renner’s directive, the university has asked some faculty members to turn over materials that go beyond the House speaker’s scope. FAU has also caused “confusion and panic” by telling professors that, “All records related to university business are public records, even if they are transmitted through personal devices, personal emails, or personal social-media accounts,” Cami Acceus, a UFF staff member, wrote to Michele Hawkins, the interim provost, in a letter obtained by The Chronicle.

    The applicable standard is not whether communications are “loosely, tangentially, or even closely related to university business,” Acceus wrote. It’s if those communications actually “transact” FAU business. She cited Florida statute and the state attorney general’s “Government-in-the-Sunshine” manual.

    “Understandably, FAU has an interest in protecting itself from legislative attacks and may even fear retribution if it does not respond zealously to the House,” Acceus said. “For these reasons, the university has cast its net wide to err on the side of overproducing records to the House of Representatives. Yet, it is not fair or just to faculty when FAU intrudes into their private lives, going beyond the scope of the record request at issue.”

    THIS IS A WITCH HUNT PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

    The fact that small government republicans are happily supporting this level of overreach would be laughable if it weren't dangerous.

    Also this:

    Florida Atlantic’s faculty senate also adopted a full-throated defense of DEI efforts. These programs “are not the product of a ‘woke’ ideology,” reads the statement. Rather, “DEI is a student-success strategy. Moreover, it is a strategy that responds to student demand and expectation.” The document urges Florida’s elected leaders to “realize the damage these mischaracterizations and scare tactics” have wrought, both to the reputation of state institutions and to the morale of its educators. It calls on donors, business leaders, alumni, and citizens for their support.

    “Our message is clear: Education is too important to our students, to the people of Florida, and to the future of our nation to be put at risk by political whim.”
     
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  19. littlebluelw

    littlebluelw GC Hall of Fame

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  20. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer VIP Member

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    Worth mentioning that DEI doesn't only focus on race, gender, religion, and sexual orientation. It also includes veterans and disabled people (including disabled veterans). So DeSantis is defunding initiatives aimed at helping veterans.
    LibGuides: Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion: Veterans
     
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