What’s going to be interesting is mandating certain programs and then paying to staff and teach those programs if there aren’t students interested in the subject matter. Curious to see how that all unfolds.
To be fair, I'm not "okay with it." I think the battle should be on the policy front with Title IX, Affirmative Action, DEI, etc. and at the local level with school boards, etc. and you slowly and incrementally change universities that way. That would be the White Knight approach to education in general and the optimal approach, albeit inefficient. This way is far uglier, more morally gray, and you're operating with an "ends justify the means" mentality, which is always dangerous in my opinion. That's a slippery slope. So I basically disagree with it, but I understand it. And I'm looking at an alternative where Democrats have already weaponized higher education and in many ways are using it to indoctrinate young adults and I don't like that option either. Such is politics, a constant choice regarding the lesser of two evils.
It really bothers you to find out higher Ed is smothered, covered and slammed with liberal ideology. It’s as if you’re the last to find out. Too close on the inside perhaps?
im liberal and yeah I work in higher Ed. Have for 20 years. Worked with other liberals and also conservatives. My mentor, a prominent person at Uf is a conservative. Those things rarely actually matter in higher Ed decision making. Only in the Twitter-sphere does it matter. Most of the time we are making decisions based on student outcomes, like graduation vs dropping out. Job placement. Course evaluations. Market analysis. We don’t sit around in fricken meetings saying oh let’s come up with a liberal indoctrination plan. What a joke.
No one is being indoctrinated by higher Ed lol we can barely convince students to check their friggen email in a timely fashion.
You genuinely probably don't. But people working with DEI and equity-based fields of study definitely try advancing those goals which are inherently left-wing in how they are applied. Establish an environment of like-minded left-leaning people that views equity as normal or good, and that's a solid way of becoming an institution that indoctrinates youth without even realizing it. What you may think is normal is inherently political and influential. Considering how those fields have grown causes universities to hire people who are either neutral with respect to things like DEI or advocate in its favor. If you don't mind me asking, was your mentor outspoken against things like DEI, Title IX, and Affirmative Action as applied? Did you talk with him about that sort of thing? Would he talk to people about that sort of thing or would he just kind of mention that he's conservative in passing and move on?
My mentor voted trump twice. So pretty conservative. Doesn't throw it in your face though, not that kind of person. Very experienced, former faculty, now in senior admin. Has never championed DEI - but understands the value in higher ed. Many of those programs provide additional student support - and those kind of support dollars are worth their weight in gold. Especially with minority populations which tend to drop out a LOT more. So people that maybe disagree on the face of things about DEI - and believe me we have talked about it at length especially in regards to hiring practices, still understand the benefit on the student side because of how they increase student persistence when done well. This is a person very focused on the mission, uses whatever tools at their disposal to try to ensure student success. They are also just fine with title ix Affirmative action they don't like, and have been outspoken on things like dropping standardized testing requirements - but is coming around as more data comes out about how they are biased. Edit: worth noting that I'm no champion of DEI either - and many people don't like how it has been enacted in some contexts at the university level. It certainly needs some reform - I think most liberals that work in universities would agree with that. Reform being the key word - not banning.
As I've pointed out many times, until very recently, the most reliable and overwhelming Republican demographic was college educated voters (and its still pretty strong one). If universities are liberal indoctrination centers, they have failed spectacularly for over half a century.
And more and more young people leaving college are liberal. It's almost like they became more progressive with time which is exactly what I've been saying since we first started talking.
That's the point. You "call it in your face," I call it being outspokenly opinionated. I'd wager if he was outspokenly opinionated against those things, he wouldn't be employed in upper higher education. You can be outspokenly in favor of those things and get those jobs, and if anything, it makes you more likely to get the job at the university level. You can be conservative in higher education, but you damn well better bite your tongue and go along to get along if you want to last.
Can't speak to what's happening these days, but I went to UF in the 90's and do not recall partisan political arguments being taught or tested. I'm confident that to the extent I became more liberal during my time there, which I did, that was the result of my interactions with other students and discussions I had outside of class as opposed to anything my professors said or did. You have a bunch of young people meeting others from different backgrounds. You have drunken parties and many having sex for the first time. Throw in having to listen to Brother Jed scream at girls and calling them whores for wearing pants, and you're probably going to come out more socially liberal than you went in, particularly if you were from a more rural or conservative place.
Unless you seek it out, you're probably not going to get political indoctrination from UF in class unless you take a class that will pretty obviously be exactly that. It's more the offering of those classes, the prioritizing of DEI as a high priority, the extra-curricular power and influence surrounded by DEI which is probably only second to UF Greek life these days, then the contagion that results from having university administration and professors being overwhelmingly liberal, certain courses, mostly in the College of Liberal Arts and Sciences, pushing liberal ideology on students, those students getting strong push from DEI initiatives making them relatively powerful and influential on campus (second only to Greek life), then interacting and influencing other students organically. It's more of an inevitable outcome than a malicious plot or conspiracy involving tons of current UF administrators and professors.
Nah it's that less and less conservatives are going to college and more and more liberals are going. People aren't changing en masse while they are there. You gotta go along to get along fricken everywhere. All of us do it. The board of trustees is very conservative. You don’t think we haven’t all be going along to get along with them? That’s the ultimate power not some unnamed evil liberal cabal. You’re really assuming a lot. To be fair also most of us hate in your face liberals too. It’s not like those people regularly rise to power at big places in Uf.
I would suspect lots of people leaving college arent in sync with the social views of rural fundamentalist Christians and might be a bit more worldly than someone who never leaves their small town, but that doesnt make them politically liberal. Plus lots of people leave college and get jobs that pay them good money and get wealthier over time, and that doesnt neatly translate to political liberalism either, certainly nothing radical.
DeSantis proposes sweeping higher education measures aimed at ‘indoctrination’ Going to be an administrative headache. Requiring “actual history?” Civics institutes? Changing gen Ed? Ugh lol.
Yeah, I majored in Finance, but I sincerely don't remember even the non business courses I took being politically charged. To be fair, I came in with 30 DE credits, so I didn't have to take that many. The young philosophy professor was great and invited different viewpoints. Shenkman taught criminal justice, and I didn't see him as right or left. Really enjoyed his class a lot. What I learned in the large nutrition class was that I would get drunk quicker if I mixed vodka with Gatorade. The most ridiculous class I took was Introduction to Recreation and Leisure in which we needed to know the names of a few national parks. The teacher literally gave us the answers in a class before the midterm exam. The reason I think I would have remembered if any classes had been very politically liberal is because I went to a public high school where the teachers were conservative and often open about it. I think the indoctrination in my HS was basically what conservatives are worried about these days but in the other direction.
Guess what, seeking out something you want to learn and being able to isnt being indoctrinated, its called freedom lol. If I recall, conservative or religious students had opportunity to seek out like minded organizations on and off campus, if they wanted.
