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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. ajoseph

    ajoseph Premium Member

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    This is a core isolationist argument, and I understand it. I think history has proven, over and over, that the isolationist theory is Unicorn-based, meaning that the reasoning of let the others fight as the fight won’t touch me, but the reality tells us a different story. We live in a fully connected and integrated World. What happens in Europe impacts us. What happens here impacts Europe. Standing by and doing nothing makes an aggressor stronger, bolder and more entrenched. History has taught us that aggression needs to be stopped at its earliest moments, or larger, more deadly conflicts spread.
     
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  2. ajoseph

    ajoseph Premium Member

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    Yes. Putin’s goal was to replace (well, murder) Ukrainian leadership with puppet leaders. It would have become a puppet state.
     
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  3. ajoseph

    ajoseph Premium Member

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    Air support/superiority would be the leading and potentially decisive game changer (if it doesn’t thoroughly expand the hostilities)
     
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  4. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

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    Grandsons of Chesty Puller and George Patton...lol
     
  5. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Negotiations for the surrender of the entire country. You are unbelievably gullible if you think otherwise.
     
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  6. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

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    Agreed and sadly I suspect ground realities may ultimately see NATO commit in that direction.

    I use the term "sadly" because the Czar wants to escalate numbers from tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands.

    Ergo I see continued escalation and thus NATO airpower being committed.

    Which of course is scary but the die had been cast. The US and NATO are at war now by my definition of it. Think USA / Britain Lend Lease. How long did that last before we were engaged?

    I'm just hoping that Ukraine can withstand what is surely a huge coming spring offensive by Russia.

    If NATO gets the armor and hardware to Ukraine in time, in reasonable quantities, I believe Ukraine may survive.

    If Putin gets another bloody nose perhaps some type of negotiated treaty may be possible. But I think Ukraine will need to make some consessions. We are not, after all, looking at a Russian unconditional surrender.

    The other scenario of course is a change in leadership (either side) and a change of direction.
     
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  7. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Russians are complaining about the "intensity of the fighting" in Ukraine. They had apparently hoped for a more manageable opponent for a more relaxed conquest.

    Gerasimov complains about high intensity of hostilities, which Russia has not yet experienced (yahoo.com)

    Maybe they should have thought twice before taking such a foolish action.
     
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  8. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Biden in a real bind now. He started a war he’s not allowed to lose.
     
  9. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Western tanks are now viewed as the beginning of the nightmare for Putin. Russia is using more and more of its stockpile of 1960's tanks, while Ukraine is upgrading its technology to state of the art.

    Swarm of Tanks Is Just the Start of Putin’s New Nightmare (yahoo.com)

     
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  10. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    What? Ukraine is purging government officials for suspected corruption? How is that possible? We have it on good authority that Ukraine is hopeless, and doomed to always have corruption at all levels in their government.

    Senior Ukraine officials purged in major shakeup (yahoo.com)

     
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  11. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

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    Russian expectation:
    Ukranian soldier - Thank you Russian Comrade, shoot me again, all glory to mother Russia.

    Russian reality:
    Where's the damn flowers and hot Ukranian womanistas?
    Ukranian soldier - Have a Himars Comrade, we will pull out the gold teeth and cut off the ears from your dead body. Welcome to Ukraine.
     
  12. oragator1

    oragator1 Premium Member

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    Some of this is for internal Ukrainian consumption, but it is also to blunt the critics in the west who are using stuff like corruption as reasons to not send further aid.
     
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  13. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Putin's cronies are foaming at the mouth because Ukraine is getting western main battle tanks. Think they are getting a little scared?

    Putin Lackeys Lose Their Minds Over Ukraine Getting Battle Tanks (yahoo.com)

    Sounds like they are starting to realize that Russia losing this war is a real possibility. Any outlandish suggestions?
    Local horror in other countries will make you more popular? Are you sure about that? Is this the new public relations campaign?
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2023
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  14. Swamplizard

    Swamplizard VIP Member

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    Abrams MBT and Leopard II MBT are going to give Ukraine a huge advantage
     
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  15. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Abrams and Leopards getting smoked in Yemen and Syria respectively. But 50 of them are going to turn the tide in Ukraine!
     
  16. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Russia warns parents to keep children inside as Wagner criminals are starting to be released after completing their combat tour in Ukraine.

    Russians Urged to Keep Kids Indoors—as Wagner’s Freed Convicts Come Home (yahoo.com)

    I suspect that Zelensky is pranking them. Either way, an excellent decision by Putin to send hardened criminals to the front.
     
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  17. ajoseph

    ajoseph Premium Member

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    Or it’s part of a brewing internal civil war between Putinites and Pregoszhin over the succession to Putin.
     
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  18. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    What I would be curious to know is if Poland has already been training Ukrainians on how to operate and maintain Leopard tanks. They have been so eager to get their tanks in the fight that it wouldn't surprise me if there was already some training going on. It also wouldn't surprise me if Polish tank crews were allowed to "temporarily immigrate" to Ukraine for the duration of the war if they volunteered to do so. I have to believe that some soldiers in the Polish military would be eager to do exactly that, if they could.
     
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  19. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Oh, I agree and that was what I meant above when I said what we could “realistically” give the Ukrainians. If we were to give them our top aviation technology and train them on it, it would be a game changer. But that absolutely will not happen.
    I’m sure there are plenty who would be eager. If you put out a call for volunteers in our own military, you would have a very healthy sized task force to contribute to the fight. Neither of those things will happen, though.
     
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  20. danmanne65

    danmanne65 GC Hall of Fame

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    What were Putin’s arguments that were worthy of not being ignored. He seemed more like a petulant child throwing a temper tantrum about not getting an immediate replacement for a broken toy.
     
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