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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    I have a dark sense of humor. It’s both a joy and a curse …
     
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  2. carpeveritas

    carpeveritas GC Hall of Fame

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    As I recall we were advisors in Vietnam as well.

    The worlds best interest? You cannot get global support for Ukraine's cause. Sure there are some nations contributing to both sides of this war but for the most part the world is silent other than paying lip service. To suggest we are doing the world a favor is bit over the top.

    As for Russia weaponizing resources of Ukraine seems to me they provided all the gas and oil Europe was sucking up prior to the war. Nor were they weaponizing any of the other exports Russia was providing the planet. Are they weaponizing those resources now? Absolutely and I expect them to continue to do so until there is resolution to this war.

    Why do we have to spend billions to feed the world? I know you are not suggesting government control of food production and resources. Private enterprise feeds the world and yes those stocks go to the highest bidder.

    As for terrorists groups I give you Afghanistan.

    The cheapest way is to stay out of the war period. Of course that doesn't mean we should degrade our military prowess and that leverage over their policies will breed corruption. Did we not have leverage over their policies before this war began?

    As for standard oil that was corruption within our own government and yes we were keen to recognize the implications of monopolies. Today we are owned by Federal Reserve and the banking industry.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2023
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  3. carpeveritas

    carpeveritas GC Hall of Fame

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    It's a long read but some might find this article from Der Spiegel concerning the readiness state of the German Army worth the read. The title speaks for itself.

    An Examination of the Truly Dire State of Germany's Military
    Shortly after this story went to print, Defense Minister Christine Lambrecht submitted her resignation. It was announced on Tuesday that she will be replaced by Boris Pistorius, a member of Chancellor Olaf Scholz's Social Democrats (SPD) who is moving to Berlin from Lower Saxony, where he was the state's interior minister.
    .....
    One example: The commander of the 10th Tank Division reported to his superiors that during an exercise with 18 Puma infantry fighting vehicles, all 18 of them broke down. It was a worrisome incident given that the ultra-modern weapons systems are a key component of the NATO rapid-reaction force. There is a lack of munitions and equipment – and arms deliveries to Ukraine have only worsened the situation. "The cupboards are almost bare," said Alfons Mais, inspector general of the German army, at the beginning of the war. André Wüstner, head of the German Bundeswehr Association, seconds him: "We continue to be in free fall."

    The situation is so bad that the German military has become a favorite punchline of late-night comedy shows. And that even before Christine Lambrecht’s embarrassing New Year’s video, in which she discusses – against a background of exploding fireworks – how the war in Ukraine has translated into numerous encounters for her with "interesting and wonderful people."
    .......
    In other words, Germany’s military continues to be reliant on analog radios, communications that can be easily intercepted, for one. For another, they are incompatible with the modern devices used by soldiers from the Netherlands, the Czech Republic and Norway, all of whom are part of the unit Germany leads.
     
  4. carpeveritas

    carpeveritas GC Hall of Fame

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    I agree everyone needs a healthy laugh at life otherwise this world would be one dull place to live.
     
  5. oragator1

    oragator1 Premium Member

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    I wasn’t at all suggesting that. But Europe is our doorstep given we are a member of nato, and because Europe is vitally important to us for a variety of reasons, we can’t live in a bubble. Simply saying “their problem” never works out, it always becomes ours.
    for example, us not entering WW2 earlier probably cost 10’s of millions of lives including the majority of the Jews in Europe, it was the isolationists that kept us out.

    Meantime, another benefit, US power seen as strong and positive again by the world (at least through the eyes of Davis).

    America in Decline? World Thinks Again.
     
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  6. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Two problems with your way of thinking:

    1) The U.S. economy and standard of living are based on global trade. If another country starts taking over neighboring countries and building an empire, global trade will suffer, and we will suffer. We won't suffer as much as the people being invaded, but our standard of living will go down, and prices will go up when we have to manufacture all of our own goods. Pollution from the wars will not stop at the border, so we will enjoy that as well.

    2) When one country gobbles up other countries, they get their natural resources (as well as free labor), and become more powerful (after recovering from any military losses in the conquest). Eventually, they become powerful enough to invade the U.S. and defeat us. Has that occurred to you? Beyond abandoning our friends around the world to enslavement, what steps do you suggest we take to prevent the U.S. from being invaded? Deny that it could ever happen? Assume that the U.S. military will always be stronger than China's or Russia's? Wait until it is almost upon us, and spend money like crazy on defense trying to prevent the inevitable?

    Decisions have consequences. If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
     
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  7. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    The Florida tank would kidnap Georgians and send them to Armenia. Force of habit. :)
     
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  8. PITBOSS

    PITBOSS GC Hall of Fame

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    We have “advisors” everywhere.
    And regarding comparing to other wars (“Vietnam”) , those against Ukraine support, ie maga/mtg/geatz/boebert, etc. believing Russia will stop after Ukraine are more similar to chamberlain.

    “Munich Betrayal - Chamberlain agreed to give Germany Sudetenland, Because he did not want to go to war over such a small issue.”

    maga/tucker/mtg/gaetz/Boebert, etc. also have similarities to holocaust denialism. Right down to demonizing the Ukrainian victims of war crimes, their leaders and entire country.

    And finally maga doesn’t seem to grasp global ramifications of bending over for Putin/Russia or fully understand the beneficial ROI of significantly weakening one of our two primary global adversaries without our army involved in direct combat.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2023
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  9. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    You have it all wrong. The Florida and Texas tanks (the latter of which must be by statute just a little larger than the other tanks and the crew must always operate under the fiction that they can break formation from the other tanks any time they choose) will collude to send any Russian EPWs directly to Budapest with a personal message to Orban: “You love Russians so much. Here are some Russians for you.”
     
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  10. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Orban may be the only head-of-state in Europe who isn’t a cuck.
     
  11. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    The US empire is telling Moscow “I’m the craziest mother around, I’ll keep ramping up the brinkmanship looking you right in the eye and daring you to use nukes,” while telling the rest of the world “I am the voice of sanity that you should all look to for leadership.”

    One of the empire’s faces is the virtuous upholder of freedom and democracy, while the other face puts on an intimidating show of viciousness like a prisoner biting off someone’s cheek in the prison yard. At least one of those faces is necessarily lying.

    Let’s Nuke The World Over Who Governs Crimea: Notes From The Edge Of The Narrative Matrix
     
  12. OklahomaGator

    OklahomaGator Jedi Administrator Moderator VIP Member

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  13. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    German-made IRIS-T missile defense system "shoots down all targets" in first use in Ukraine.

    German IRIS-T air defense system shoots down all targets during Ukraine’s first use (yahoo.com)

     
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  14. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Germany is thinking about giving 19 Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine, according to German news outlet Der Spiegel. A little disappointing, but better than nothing.

    Germany can transfer 19 out of over 200 Leopard tanks to Ukraine (yahoo.com)

     
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  15. homer

    homer GC Hall of Fame

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    Can’t think of a better way than real combat to test your military equipment.

    Ukraine is becoming NATOs testing grounds.
     
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  16. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    That is much more true than most people are aware.
     
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  17. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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    The article didn't address whether Germany is consenting to the transfer of Leopard 2 tanks by other countries. It's been my impression that Germany has been reluctant to do so. 13 countries have Leopards and several have offered to transfer tanks to Ukraine Poland coming immediately to mind.
     
  18. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Some believe that it has long been Russia’s aim to demilitarize NATO, by way of Ukraine. I don’t know about that. But it seems to be happening.
     
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  19. studegator

    studegator GC Legend

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    "The armed forces have lost their core competence over the years as they have become completely bureaucratized: combat. Within the administration, combat isn't even a relevant category – except, that is, when it comes to dealing with the next closest department.
    The administration thinks in terms of processes, not results. The most important thing is that decisions be made in accordance with the rules. Every civil servant knows that mistakes can slow down a career and that a project well done doesn't necessarily guarantee further advancement. Instead, risks are eliminated to the degree possible. And time plays no role in the equation.
    This combination of regulatory frenzy coupled with risk aversion is stifling the Bundeswehr. Systematically, responsibility has been shifted from the bottom up to anonymous large-scale authorities. In the past, it was up to a battalion to decide who would be promoted to lance corporal. Today it is the Personnel Office of the Bundeswehr that makes that decision."
     
  20. GatorJMDZ

    GatorJMDZ gatorjack VIP Member

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    Do you have children? A daughter? This is one very small reason why you are terribly wrong and I am thankful the US will be in this until Russia is stopped and taught to never do this again. If you are OK with that child in a bomb sheler, you have a lot of soul searching to do.

     
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