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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    What rape looks like ...

    upload_2023-1-17_12-28-23.jpeg
     
  2. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Remarkable that Putin bears no responsibility for the deaths in Ukraine. Like he had nothing to do with it.
     
  3. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Of course he had something to do with it. He flatly warned, over and over again, that he’d do it if his concerns were not addressed. And the reason they weren’t addressed is because this is the war the US wanted. Well, by cracky, they got it.
     
  4. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Actually, your beloved Russians did far more damage to Syria than the Americans did. And the U.S. was only one of a dozen groups fighting in Syria. We were mostly fighting ISIS, which happened to be the most bloodthirsty terrorist organization in history. Or did you also support ISIS in its fight against "U.S. hegemony"?

    All of the countries you listed did something to attract the attention of the U.S. in a very negative way: invading neighbors, supporting terrorism, etc. I suppose you cheered after 9-11 and cried about U.S. attacks against al Qaeda?
     
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  5. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    And we all know it’s a bad thing to attract the attention of the US in a negative way ...

    A Brown University study found that just under a million people – between 897,000 and 929,000 – were killed directly due to violence across five theatres of war involving significant US and Western military involvement: Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Syria and Yemen.

    These numbers have been widely reported as proving that around one million people have been killed in post-9/11 wars. Yet, they are extremely conservative figures.

    The real death toll is far, far higher – a fact that has not been properly reported in media reports.

    “The deaths we tallied are likely a vast under-count of the true toll these wars have taken on human life,” said the co-author of the Costs of War project report Professor Neta Crawford – noting that the tally does not incorporate indirect deaths due to the consequences of war through the destruction of civilian infrastructure.

    Up to Six Million People: The Unrecorded Fatalities of the ‘War on Terror’ – Byline Times
     
  6. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    So anyone can get whatever they want by simply warning everyone else that they will start killing people if they do not give them what is desired to address the concerns. So by giving advanced warning of murder and mayhem, then one is completely justified in proceeding with murder and mayhem. In fact, anyone of limited intellect can claim that Putin had no other choice; therefore, the Ukrainians are committing suicide and Russia has little to do with it.
     
  7. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    You absolutely refuse to acknowledge what the US is now unashamed to say out loud: it’s long-standing aim to see Putin deposed and his country weakened.
     
  8. carpeveritas

    carpeveritas GC Hall of Fame

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    Yes Ukraine wants all manners and weapons of war and what he is complaining about right now is tanks and the problem is that bilateral agreement has not been made. That said more than anything else Zelensky wants NATO boots on the ground in Ukraine fighting this war with and for him. When Germany says not till 2024 that is not happening and Germany is the key to NATO and the Euro Zone. No one is going to break ranks from the Euro Zone.
     
  9. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    War is probably a hard sell in Germany. 60% of East Germans would like the war to end immediately even if it entails Ukraine ceding territory to Russia. Europe’s greatest need is to throw off its American shackles so as to avoid drowning.
     
  10. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    Zelensky wants Russia out of Ukrainian soil. He doesn't want war. Putin wants war. That fundamental fact seems lost on you.
     
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  11. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    Xi would agree. Taiwan could learn from the mistakes of others. One cannot stop the tide.
     
  12. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    Switzerland returning assets. Yes, that is same Russian lawyer that met with the team at the Tower to discuss adoptions

     
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  13. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

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    Can't remember the exact event, may be the olympics but Germany won and the locals played "Deutschland Uber Allas"

    I LMAO.
     
  14. carpeveritas

    carpeveritas GC Hall of Fame

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    Putin didn't want the war either but when backed into a corner that is exactly what happens. I suspect that point is lost on you. We have been through the history over and over so no point in rehashing again.
     
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  15. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    I must be missing something. What’s funny about that?
     
  16. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    That’s kinder than I would have been. I would have straight-up banned their athletes. Russia wants to be a pariah state, then that’s what this looks like. They can form their own international league with Belarus, Iran, North Korea et al.
     
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  17. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    After what Putin demonstrated in Georgia, Crimea and other places, those goals are reasonable. Russia under Putin has had a habit of invading other countries and subjugating them. Russia takes natural resources from countries it invades with little or no justification. It is willing to use energy and food as a weapon to threaten other countries into keeping silent while Russia commits its atrocities. None of these countries threatened Moscow. At some point, a world leader like the U.S. has to take a stand against a marauding dictator like Putin. There is no question that Putin's goal is to restore the old Soviet empire.

    Most of the nations within the Soviet sphere have moved on with their lives, developing their countries as independent nations. Yes, there is corruption within many of these countries. Of course, much of it is residual corruption from the USSR that has not yet been rooted out. That does not mean we should turn our back completely on them and allow them to be swallowed by Russia (again). Defeating (or weakening) Russia is in our best interests, and anyone who argues otherwise is simply foolish. If Russia would mind its own business and work on developing its own country, it would not have these problems.

    If the U.S. is the world's policeman, Russia is the world's criminal.
     
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  18. Sohogator

    Sohogator GC Hall of Fame

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    That’s a wild ass take completely unfounded in fact
     
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  19. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    In my opinion, you are way too intelligent to believe that. Reconquest (one way or another) of Little Russia has always been a part of Putin’s agenda.

    No metaphor is perfect, but your thesis on Russian intentions is a lot like stating that if in 1939 Poland had been willing to negotiate in good faith with Nazi Germany on the Corridor and Gdańsk, then Germany would not have had to invade Poland, WW2 would not have been necessary, and millions would have lived. And in a vacuum where the parts of Germany lost to Poland at the end of WW1 were the only thing (or at least the last thing) Hitler wanted, then that thesis might be true. The problem is, we know that Hitler’s strategic objectives required all of Poland to be subjugated eventually, and even that only as an intermediate objective for its territorial goals in the Eastern Soviet Union, never mind needing to reverse the WW1 defeats in the West. In short, the only real question was where one decided to stop bowing to Hitler’s demands, this one, or the next one, or the one after that.

    That is not dissimilar to Putin’s goals. Would he prefer to have avoided war? Surely. So would have Hitler if the Poles, Russians et al would have been willing to stand aside and put themselves peacefully into slavery. Putin would likewise have been delighted if Ukraine would peacefully have agreed to be Russia’s vassal state, just like Belarus, agreeing to full right of movement for Russian forces, subordinate economic status, military direction from Moscow, etc. In that sense, you are right as right can be. War was avoidable.

    But where you seem to be woefully and willfully naive is your basic assumption that Ukraine is the end of Putin’s vision for Russia. You forget that he (and his ilk) consider Moldova, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, and parts of Eastern Poland as inextricable to historical Russia as Ukraine (aka Little Russia) is.

    The usual rejoinder to what I have just laid out is some form of casual dismissal that Putin can’t threaten Poland or the Baltics because their NATO membership. But then the same people making these airy dismissals of the Russian threat are the same ones saying NATO should no longer be a thing or at least that the U.S. should no longer be in it (which is the same thing in effect). And I find that to be an odd contradiction of opinions that coincidentally support Putin’s ultimate scheme of maneuver. The only conclusion I can reach, therefore, is that the wisest course of action is to stop Putin now or, failing that, cause him as much pain as possible on the way to his next move.
     
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  20. Gatorhead

    Gatorhead GC Hall of Fame

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    Playing the Nazi national anthem at a 2020 event because you do not know a country's actual anthem is a bit odd don't you think? Like playing Dixie for am American and yes, I thought the absurdity was worth a chuckle.