Welcome home, fellow Gator.

The Gator Nation's oldest and most active insider community
Join today!

Meet the Pensacola English teacher waging war on books

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by gator_lawyer, Dec 27, 2022.

  1. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Hall of Fame

    6,785
    827
    2,103
    Dec 6, 2015
    Already shown that it's not a small minority of parents.

    The bolded applies both ways and is largely influenced by the fear that people have of speaking out.

    Now you're speculating a premise to shift the actual number of people we should care about to arbitrarily support your policy preference. We went from "parents who disagree that we should provide X" to "parents who would "make a stink" if we provide X. The numbers for the latter for genuine highly contested policy issues is always around 20% of less.

    All you're doing is incentivizing more parents to "make a stink." As usual, gator_lawyer, be careful what you wish for.

    If I'm banning it both ways, it's not discrimination. And you have yet to provide examples of books you think should be removed from children's libraries really just telling me "it's not up to me."

    You have yet to provide me with an example of a book that was removed because it was age inappropriate that wasn't a suppression of idea (barring pornography and profanity). You're just using circular logic saying it's suppression of ideas, because it's suppression of ideas because you said so.

    You're not engaging with me honestly and you're moving the goal posts.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2022
  2. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Hall of Fame

    6,785
    827
    2,103
    Dec 6, 2015
    You read thousands of books per year? About how many thousand? Let's say 1,500.

    There's 365 days in a year that means you averaged 4 book per day per year as an 8 or 9 year old.

    Either you have a genius level IQ, the books you read were incredibly brief, or you're grossly exaggerating the extent you read as a child.
     
  3. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer VIP Member

    15,810
    5,477
    3,213
    Oct 30, 2017
    No, you showed how people would answer when asked for their opinion. You haven't shown that people are motivated enough to actually act. There is a difference. For example, many gun safety restrictions are broadly popular, but the people most motivated by gun issues tend to be people who oppose those restrictions. Unsurprisingly, that has a major effect on gun policy in this country.

    Okay. Throw out some book titles, tell me which library we're speaking of (elementary, middle, or high school), and I'll offer you my opinion. I'm not sure where you think I'm going to get a list.

    I did that earlier. I said that while I disagree with their decision, the Escambia County School Board is within its rights to remove The Perks of Being a Wallflower.

    I've shot straight with you this entire time. I even posted a long passage from a Supreme Court opinion to explain exactly how and where I draw the line.
     
  4. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Hall of Fame

    6,785
    827
    2,103
    Dec 6, 2015
    Why isn't that a suppression of ideas?
     
  5. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer VIP Member

    15,810
    5,477
    3,213
    Oct 30, 2017
    They removed it because it has adult themes. I disagree with the idea that high schoolers can't handle those themes (and most will or can see the movie), but that's a legitimate reason to remove the book.
     
  6. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Hall of Fame

    6,785
    827
    2,103
    Dec 6, 2015
    Quick Google search of the definition of theme:

    Theme: an idea that recurs in or pervades a work of art or literature.

    Alternative way of writing your post:
    "They removed it because it has adult ideas. I disagree with the idea that high schoolers can't handle those ideas, but that's a legitimate reason to remove the book... it's not a suppression of ideas."

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2022
  7. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer VIP Member

    15,810
    5,477
    3,213
    Oct 30, 2017
    Read the Supreme Court passage I quoted. The suppression of ideas they're discussing means in a way that is discriminatory against a group of people, political viewpoints, etc. The reason for removing The Perks of Being a Wallflower is content based.
     
  8. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Hall of Fame

    6,785
    827
    2,103
    Dec 6, 2015
    But if both sides are banned it's not discriminatory.

    And round and round we go.
     
  9. PerSeGator

    PerSeGator GC Hall of Fame

    2,289
    365
    1,993
    Jun 14, 2014
    I'm not certain how library stocking decisions are made and it likely varies district by district, but there's usually plenty of opportunity for parents to get involved through the PTA, parent-teacher conferences, meetings with counselors and admin, open nights, school board meetings, etc. Many parents don't bother, but others take pretty active roles in these things. That doesn't mean every parent is always going to get his/her way, but the opportunity to get involved is almost always there.
     
  10. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer VIP Member

    15,810
    5,477
    3,213
    Oct 30, 2017
    And I'm telling you that your proposal to ban all books featuring same-sex and heterosexual couples is absurd, not that it's discriminatory.
     
  11. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Hall of Fame

    6,785
    827
    2,103
    Dec 6, 2015
    [​IMG]
     
  12. danmanne65

    danmanne65 GC Hall of Fame

    3,610
    744
    243
    Jul 2, 2022
    DeLand
    I read three books or so a day. They were chapter books but they were simple books I was 9. About a hundred pages a book. They took about an hour to read.
     
    • Fistbump/Thanks! Fistbump/Thanks! x 1
  13. Gator715

    Gator715 GC Hall of Fame

    6,785
    827
    2,103
    Dec 6, 2015
    So you read 300 pages a day as a 9 year old not including your school work or whatever other things you had going on?
     
  14. danmanne65

    danmanne65 GC Hall of Fame

    3,610
    744
    243
    Jul 2, 2022
    DeLand
    Yes, my dad had a rule that I didn’t have to listen to the nonsense they teach in 2nd and 3rd grade but I couldn’t disrupt so I read in class.
     
  15. danmanne65

    danmanne65 GC Hall of Fame

    3,610
    744
    243
    Jul 2, 2022
    DeLand
    50 kids pages an hour 6 hours a day of school. What homework was there in 2nd and 3rd grade.
     
  16. tilly

    tilly Superhero Mod. Fast witted. Bulletproof posts. Moderator VIP Member

    And thats all good. Some seem to be insinuating that parents shouldnt have a say. Maybe their point is lost in TH translation?.
     
  17. luvtruthg8r

    luvtruthg8r Premium Member

    628
    147
    1,723
    Apr 3, 2007
    As I wrote before, that's fine to a point, but it is NOT fine when a group representing a small minority of extremists attempts to force school boards to kowtow to their demands that only about 25% of the populace supports.

    That is EXACTLY what is happening in Florida and all around the country. The other 75% of us want that 25% of the populous to worship the way they want to, and to encourage or discourage your kids to do or not do whatever you want them to do or not do, but leave the rest of us the heck alone! If we want to live according to the religion of the far right, WE will make that decision!
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2023
    • Like Like x 1
    • Fistbump/Thanks! Fistbump/Thanks! x 1
  18. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

    17,499
    2,734
    1,618
    Apr 3, 2007
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  19. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

    15,452
    1,127
    2,088
    Jan 5, 2022
    If the criterion for book-burning is someone who wants to prevent you from reading information they don’t want to read, the leading book-burners BY FAR include government(s), public health, media and social media with help from the FBI and the CIA.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2023
  20. mrhansduck

    mrhansduck GC Hall of Fame

    4,565
    956
    1,788
    Nov 23, 2021
    :mad:

    Peggy Sunday, who graduated from Northview in 2021, told Popular Information that, during a 10th-grade English class, Baggett said she opposed interracial marriage. "[Baggett] said in the Bible somewhere it says that it is a sin for races to mix together and that whites are meant to be with whites and blacks are meant to be with blacks," Sunday alleged. About 15 students, from a variety of racial backgrounds, were enrolled in the class.

    Another student in the same class, Stone Pressley, recalled the same incident. Pressley said that Baggett said she was opposed to "race mixing" because "she wanted to preserve cultures" and "didn't want everyone to turn the same color eventually." Pressley said that although Baggett had a reputation for controversial remarks, he found Baggett's comments on interracial relationships "shocking." After the incident, Pressley recalled asking his science teacher if it was possible, as Baggett claimed, for everyone to be "the same color one day."
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1