Substitute gay marriage for “stripping” with some minor distinctions, and the same argument sounds absurd. School libraries do not and should not operate under a typical First Amendment standard. Kids dramatically change the calculus because there are certain things that are and aren’t age appropriate. Can this way of thinking be exploited to the point of 1984-Esque censorship? Of course. But we have to draw the line somewhere. And I think it’s fine to not have LGBTQ+ books in elementary school libraries. Those sorts of lessons belong at home not in a classroom.
Again ... dumb.... Stripping and gay marriage have nothing to do with each other. I could say, "Substitute marriage for “stripping” with some minor distinctions"... If gay marriage can't be talked about then marriage can't be talked about, because there is no difference at this point.
No legal distinction. There’s also no legal distinction between a 67 year old man dating a 20 year old, should we present this as normal to toddlers?
So ban books about John Tyler, then? He married a 21 year old when was nearly 60. I really don't care if children who are interested in presidential history read that. I doubt it's going to scar kids for life, or anything.
I'm sure there are books about John Tyler that can be found in school libraries. Ban them or not? Simple question. The problem with your way of thinking is that you think you should able to dictate what all kids should be allowed to read based on last century's ideas of what is moral.
There’s also books about rapists and plunderers in school libraries. I don’t think they go into graphic detail or frame them in some form of neutral way as though it is normal. That’s kind of the whole point. Kids are also around their parents all of the time. You know what their parents did? They had sex.
So would y'all have a problem with a children's book about a bull that was servicing multiple cows? Oh it doesn't have to be about sex, how about this bull is daddy of all the calves in the heard? Seems natural enough to me. Certainly more normal than gay penguins.
When I think of children's books I think they are meant for elementary school kids. I doubt you will find John Tyler mentioned in a 3rd grade reader.
You want to crap on literally thousands of years of ethical standards and cultural norms because we recognized gay marriage as a Constitutional right two seconds ago.
And if you do, you're not going to get this graphic detail about his marriage. They might mention it, and even if they do, they probably wouldn't mention his wife's age in a children's book. I'm all for kids learning about Columbus in elementary school. That doesn't mean they need to read exactly what he did in graphic detail, it's just not age appropriate. Middle school and high school are obviously completely different stories. Education should become more liberal in the classical sense as you get older.
Yes. Crappy "ethical standards" and "cultural norms" should be crapped on. Look at some of the other "cultural norms" that were wiped out of existence by amendments, and courts, and laws. Slavery. Interracial marriage. Segregation. Christians used to argue that all those were "gods will", too, and they perfectly fell in line with what most people considered "moral" and "ethical" at the time. Sure, a lot of people at the time didn't like the change, and fought it, and ignored it, and pretended it didn't happen, went to war to stop it ... but those people have mostly faded with time and now the few left people who long for those good old days are pretty much universally viewed as scum of the earth by everyone else. I put your ideas of "ethical standards" and "cultural norms" right up there with those, and I hereby take a big dump on it.
You don't think you could find a biography of a president in an elementary school library? I mean, when I was in elementary school, we had to do "reports" on things like that...
This sort of mentality is just the height of arrogance. You know yeah a lot of people did a lot of bad things in history, and many of those used religion to justify those bad things, including Christianity. That doesn't mean we dump all of it and start from scratch. The arrogance it takes to think that you know better than everyone who came going back thousands of years before you, and you know exactly how things should be... that's really the only word you can use to describe it.
The same could be said for you. Why do you get to dictate the line and what makes you special? Per Pew research, 60% of Americans say gay marriage is a positive and is good for society. Do you think strippers enjoy such a positive percentage amongst the American public? That is where your argument falls apart and is moot. You seem to keep trying to equate strippers with gay marriage, so you'd think that your opinion would follow the norm, but obviously strippers are not the norm and gay marriage is. You're just in the minority of that opinion and you can't stand it.
Once again, you are comparing criminal acts to something that is legal is all 50 states... and now you are also against framing same sex couples in a "neutral" way? Basically, you want to pretend it doesn't exist ... Ok, but if that's the case, then any book that reference opposite sex relationships in a neutral way as if that is normal should also be banned, too, right? Otherwise, it's flat out discrimination.
You could go with any number of less extreme comparisons. The point is that we shouldn't be banning books because a kid could take the wrong message away from it. I guarantee you any of these high schoolers can go home and watch the movie. But you're laser focused on the wrong issue here. The problem isn't one book. It's allowing this crazy person to get all these books taken away from children by filing insane and baseless challenges. Nobody disagrees that there's a line. Does The Perks of Being a Wallflower cross it? No. Does the penguin book or the Wilma Rudolph book across it? Absolutely not.
I bolded the parts that you should use for some self reflection. Imagine someone thinking they are so important they should be able to tell other people's kids what is off limits for them to read at school.
Lol You mean the cultural norms and ethical standards that had kids able to marry as young as 12-14 with no parental requirement? The Bible even mentions puberty as the basis. Are you upset that that is no longer the norm? Or are you okay with that one?
We have societal norms that people across religions (and non-religions) largely respect. Societies had norms before Christianity was even a major religion. A book about two male penguins jointly raising a baby penguin craps on your values? Let's be very clear, you can stop hiding behind the term "Judeo-Christian values." The vast majority of Jews don't hate gay people. I expect the same is true about Christians. You're describing social conservatives. Let's be honest about that. I don't "think" they're not comparable. I know they aren't. Feel free to make the case that I am wrong. You still haven't offered any justification as to why drawing the line at excluding all books that include LGBTQ characters or even allude to LGBTQ people existing is proper. If you want to argue that line is acceptable, have at it. This has nothing to do with the classroom or lessons. It's a book in the school library.
