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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    There is fake news and there is decidedly fake news.
     
  2. Sohogator

    Sohogator GC Hall of Fame

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    Pulling out the Old Man Trump “Fake News” play card is never a winning tactic.
     
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  3. slayerxing

    slayerxing GC Hall of Fame

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    He does it for literally everything anti Russian
     
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  4. slayerxing

    slayerxing GC Hall of Fame

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  5. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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    In the end the decision to make any concessions including ceding territory to Russia will be up to the government of Ukraine, not the US or NATO. That being said Russia occupied Crimea prior to the invasion in February and that Crimean peninsula and especially the port city of Sevastopol have been part of Russia for centuries going back to the reign of Catherine the Great. Ukrainians never constituted a majority of the population of Crimea and in every census since 1959, ethnic Russians have constituted at least 65% of the population of the Crimean peninsula.
     
  6. slayerxing

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  7. sierragator

    sierragator GC Hall of Fame

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  8. oragator1

    oragator1 Premium Member

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    don’t think that’s what he’s saying. He is arguing that humiliating Russia could make a vacuum and make things worse not better. We have already degraded them, humiliating them isn’t in the worlds interests. Germany being humiliated in WW1 led to WW2. And Russia is chock full of nationalists and nuclear weapons that could all be in a free for all of their government collapses or the country fragments.
    I am not saying I fully agree with him, but it isn’t without merit. And given that he escaped from nazi Germany, it isn’t just academic for him. Nor is he someone that doesn’t understand conquest and evil.
     
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  9. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    I wonder how much an improvement a billion dollars worth of insulation would be to Ukraine's electricity problem. There has to be something that can be done to help the citizens of Ukraine resist the winter. If they have to light their houses with candles, then so be it.
     
  10. slayerxing

    slayerxing GC Hall of Fame

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    I have some general concerns about the lack of off ramps in this conflict.

    1. Russia has no clear military path to victory, and honestly, neither does Ukraine. In the unlikely event that Ukraine actually took back all the territory that Russia has claimed since the invasion, that wouldn't end the war. And even if Russia eventually took Kyiv, it wouldn't end the war.
    2. This means that Russia's only legitimate path to victory is the complete destruction of the Ukrainian people. They have to destroy their will to fight and their ability to support their troops. They are going to do that by trying to freeze them to death, which is kind of horrific.
    3. This is going to take a long time. I kind of question if the west can actually sit and watch the slow annihilation of the Ukrainian people without feeling compelled to get more involved.

    So to recap - neither side has a clear path to victory outside of a humanitarian disaster, and the longer it goes on the more likely the west is to increase their involvement. Just badness all around.
     
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  11. oragator1

    oragator1 Premium Member

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    which is why I think he said that Ukraine should give up some of its territory and end this (for which is was pilloried). Again, I don’t wholly agree with him, but his position does solve many of the obstacles we face right now because as you said there aren’t any real ways to end this any time soon or cleanly.
     
  12. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    If Russia demanded the return of Alaska, does he think we should just give it to them in the name of peace? And if the answer to that is no, then why we would we expect any other country to agree to such an arrogant demand?
     
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  13. studegator

    studegator GC Legend

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  14. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Neither is instilling false hope through citing intel from the sources that brought us the Ghost of Kyiv.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2022
  15. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Literally everything you read is anti-Russian.
     
  16. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    More projection as it is the US, or at least the voices that hold sway have no off-ramp. I surmise that Putin will continue plodding, killing Kyiv nationalists, as many as it takes and for as long as it takes.
     
  17. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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  18. slayerxing

    slayerxing GC Hall of Fame

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    i try to find out what’s actually happening on the battlefield. I routinely post from a source that reports both Russian and Ukrainian advances. The fact that the contributors hate Russians is a bonus tho lol. But the data is good. They even post the stuff they don’t like. Just less gleefully.
     
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  19. slayerxing

    slayerxing GC Hall of Fame

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    Clearly did not read
     
  20. duggers_dad

    duggers_dad GC Hall of Fame

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    Do they report on crushing Ukrainian losses ?