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Biden the Bailout King is at it again

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by chemgator, Dec 10, 2022.

  1. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    This time its a bailout for the unions. You know, the organization run by the mafia, that is notoriously bad at managing money for some reason.

    Biden announces $36 billion bailout for union pension plan

    Why is it that everyone else can manage retirement money without requiring a bailout, but the unions can't?

    If Biden is willing to bail out the mafia (with no apparent reforms to prevent this from happening again), is there any organization he is not willing to bail out? Is there any incentive for people to do their best (and control risk, etc.) if the government will just bail them out? Why wouldn't the union bosses take their funds to Vegas and invest it in casinos to see if they get a good return?

     
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  2. OklahomaGator

    OklahomaGator Jedi Administrator Moderator VIP Member

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    From the article it looks like it is funds that have already been appropriated so it is not extra debt.
     
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  3. rivergator

    rivergator Too Hot Mod Moderator VIP Member

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    That's $100,000 per worker, right? How do we rationalize that when so many peoples' retirement funds took such a big hit this year?
     
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  4. oragator1

    oragator1 Premium Member

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    When I saw this yesterday I did some research on it.
    A teamster with 30 years of service has a pension of 5k per month. So if couple who worked 30 years and both received social security would be making around 170k a year in retirement. Or in the top 10 percent or so of family incomes.
    Meantime, 81 percent of retirees have some form of a pension, and only around 25 percent of current workers will have one. And a worker who scrimps and saves a million dollars over their life would only get around 40k a year out of that money. And only about 3 percent of workers have even saved that much.
    And they are the ones paying for this bailout, despite the fact that they need far more help than the unions do.
    But such is the nature of politics, and this admin in particular.
     
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  5. rivergator

    rivergator Too Hot Mod Moderator VIP Member

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    You sure about that? I just glanced a couple of articles and saw 21 percent ...
     
  6. oragator1

    oragator1 Premium Member

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  7. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    Because they are union employees and we aren't?
     
  8. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    Union members are special. They deserve more than everyone else. Ive been working 30 years and get nothing other than what Ive saved
     
  9. wgbgator

    wgbgator Premium Member

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    United we bargain, divided we beg. Every worker needs a union.
     
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  10. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    European union model I can support. US unions are terrible unless you are a slacker
     
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  11. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    Have not read up on this specific issue yet but unions in general are a positive for our economy and for workers. They are a large part of what separates the economies of Western democracies with those of more totalitarian countries.

    In terms of their historic links to organize crime, technically true. But American corporate management commits similar criminal acts that are only legal by definition due to their lobbying power. To oversimplify, and to paraphrase an old buddy, when corporate heads compare notes on common strategy, it's called networking. When union leaders do it, it's called racketeering.

    Pensions are an especially thorny issue. We've tried significant legislation to protect pensions due to the predatory nature of corporate heads. That protection has been eroding. Great book on it about 10 years ago.

    I suspect there's more to this issue. I'll wait for a substack analysis from a confident analyst

     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2022
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  12. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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  13. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Average Retirement Savings: How Do You Compare? - SmartAsset

    Probably depends if you define a 401k or 403b as a pension, which they really aren't. About 25% of Americans have no retirement savings, so the 81% figure can't be right.
     
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  14. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Unions had their place a century ago, but no longer provide much benefit. The gov't has intervened as far as workplace safety and minimum wage are concerned. They are probably beneficial to organizations that are too stupid to value their front-line working employees, but not for the rest of the organizations.

    Only 7% of the private sector workforce is organized into unions in the U.S. Yet the U.S. has the strongest economy in the world, and is the wealthiest per capita in the world of medium-to-large industrialized countries. Like has been said many times before in various contexts, our system is the worst one in the world, with the exception of every other system that's been tried in history.

    About 37% of the government employees in the U.S. are unionized, yet government employees have gained a reputation for being lazy and lacking attention to detail compared to the private sector.
     
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  15. oragator1

    oragator1 Premium Member

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    Pensions were common for generations and only left the majority of companies in the last 20 years. My company got rid of their# about 7 years ago for instance, but both my parents get one still. Most who are already retired are old enough that they still had them. Those still working don’t. Hence the difference.
     
  16. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    You have accurately described the effects of a 50-year campaign to delegitimize and destroy unions. That's not the same as the actual effect of unions. I would recommend to Michael Lewis read on the benefit of governmental workers as compared to their reputation.

     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2022
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  17. oragator1

    oragator1 Premium Member

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    Unions lost their standing and bargaining power because of international competition. You can’t demand 70k a year and a lifelong thousands a month pension when someone in Vietnam will do the same job for 10 dollars a day and no benefits. And unions were almost incomprehensibly slow in realizing it, and priced themselves out of many industries. Things like this pension debacle are the final death throes of a dying way of life.
     
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  18. channingcrowderhungry

    channingcrowderhungry Premium Member

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    Bottom of a pint glass
    Never seen a bailout I like. This is no different. Sorry if your pension/business/farm/bank/utility was mismanaged, it isn't my responsibility.
     
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  19. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Well, since the average worker dies about 20 years after they retire, the percentage of people who still have them should be dropping rapidly. And I suspect the number is closer to 25 years ago that pensions were phased out. The chemical industry dropped them about 20 years ago, but that is traditionally one of the wealthier industries that could afford to keep offering a benefit like that longer than the average industry.
     
  20. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    Additionally, unions have a habit of destroying cyclical companies, like airlines. A union will typically only negotiate for raises during the good times, when they can point to how much money the company is making. Then when the bad times come, they hold the company to the agreement and watch them go under, with baggage handlers making $70,000 a year back when that was a lot of money (probably close to $120k now).
     
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