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Air Marshalls Refusing Orders

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by G8trGr8t, Dec 4, 2022.

  1. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

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    Odd take. It’s civilian law enforcement which is explicitly and purposefully NOT military. (even if the militarization of police has blurred the line somewhat).

    If you want to see the dangers of tearing down those lines or have the “police” totally at the whims of the executive of the nation state, look no farther than outfits like Russian FSB or Iranian Secret Police for the kind of hell that can be created.
     
  2. DesertGator

    DesertGator VIP Member

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    I can see how you'd think it odd. However air travel and security also intrudes into the bailiwick of national security which makes it a little more of a gray area in my thinking. Pretty much all of the military branches employ civilians as well. Maybe that's the compromise in this.
     
  3. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

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    I know I am in a very small miniority on this, but this is a mission which seems seems unnecessary
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

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    The FBI is also involved in national security, and yet I’ve never heard anyone “surprised” the FBI isn’t actually a branch of the military.
     
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  5. citygator

    citygator VIP Member

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    Ok. After a little research the reason I haven’t heard about this is that it is entirely conservative news driven like the caravan invasions. Here is a statement from the Air Marshall association.

    Federal Air Marshals serve with honor at the U.S. southern border


    The Air Marshal Association commends the exemplary service of Federal Air Marshals serving at the southern border of the United States in response to the crisis created by an unprecedented number of undocumented alien entries.

    Although the assignment is inconvenient for the FAMs deployed, and the agency must adjust mission priorities to comply with the DHS mandate, the order for FAMs to assist border agencies is lawful. The Air Marshal Association has worked closely with Congressional offices and the TSA to reduce the duration of the border deployment from 30 days to 21 days, has worked to ensure deployed agents have appropriate clothing and equipment to complete their mission, and is providing full union representation to deployed agents.

    It is unfortunate that some Federal Air Marshals would resort to incendiary, partisan, and insurrectionist rhetoric to avoid being deployed to an undesirable assignment. Fraudulent Air Marshal groups have formed that are espousing ‘mutiny’, and advising FAMs to disobey orders to deploy to the border. These groups, and the individual agents that make them up, must be cut from government like a cancer. The AMA believes these individuals should be investigated as an insider threat, and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. There is no room in law enforcement for agents that lack integrity, promote insurrection, and fail to honor their oath of office.

    For decades, Federal Air Marshals have deployed to dangerous hotspots around the world to advance U.S. interests. Although the AMA believes that our highly trained FAMs should be primarily used to investigate threats, generate intelligence, and serve as the last line of defense on high-risk missions, we also recognize that border integrity is critical to the safety and security of our nation. The men and women of the Air Marshal Association are proud to serve our nation in this hour of need.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  6. Woollybooger

    Woollybooger VIP Member

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    This looks like something written by a politically appointed head of the agency, to cover both their asses as well as those above them. I am sure it wasn't voted on by the rank and file. I say B.S. to the whole thing.
     
  7. ATLGATORFAN

    ATLGATORFAN Premium Member

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    It’s not a stretch to think the majority would be pissed and not want to go sit in the desert or they would have signed up for border patrol( who is hiring ). 2 very different missions. I would be fairly upset had I signed up for Air Force or Army tank school and then once I signed and completed all my training I was assigned to a deployment aboard the USS sh*ttystation in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean listening to sonar pings in a dark room

    regarding the caravans. When it first started the comments were large caravans with thousands of people. Turns out what was left out was the context of the Cartels controlling the border not only making billions off these caravans, but they purposely Overwhelm one particular sector, enabling massive amounts of fentanyl to be smuggled across in other sectors….. But I digress
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2022
  8. staticgator

    staticgator GC Legend

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    This is what Republicans want.
     
    • Come On Man Come On Man x 1
  9. OklahomaGator

    OklahomaGator Jedi Administrator Moderator VIP Member

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    I don't know why they are even doing this, we have been consistently told the border is secure. (runs away) :):):)
     
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  10. citygator

    citygator VIP Member

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    Sure. The oldest professional association of FAMs says “we’re professionals go be professional”… must be plant. Yep.
     
  11. citygator

    citygator VIP Member

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    Pissed vs insubordinate are two separate things. This doesn’t seem to be a big deal and totally unusual but what do I know?
     
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  12. citygator

    citygator VIP Member

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    Doesn’t Title 42 end soon? I guess they anticipate a surge.
     
  13. ATLGATORFAN

    ATLGATORFAN Premium Member

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    fair point and answer
     
  14. DesertGator

    DesertGator VIP Member

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    A little deeper digging and I figured out why it's setup the way it is. Air Marshalls can actually make arrests. I was under the impression they could not and could only hold and then turn over to other authorities (the military branches are not authorized to arrest). It makes a bit more sense to me now.
     
  15. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    I agree, the whole air marshall thing needs to go away. from the original article. $200 million per arrest. absurd

    No air marshal has ever stopped a terrorist or hijacker since the service was founded in 1962. Although an air marshal did shoot and kill a US citizen in 2005. If something really bad did happen on a flight and an air marshal was onboard they lack the training to do anything about it.

    We spend $200 million per arrest on the air marshal program. And to be clear that is not $200 million per arrest of a terror suspect, most are just passengers behaving badly.

    It turns out the government knows the air marshal program is such a mess that the TSA formally checks the sobriety of air marshals showing up at the airport.

    And they go through this step even though the Department of Homeland Security admits they do “not have information on [the air marshal program’s] effectiveness” and they go on to say they do not “have data on the deterrent effect” of the program at all.
     
  16. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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    That pretty much answers the question as to whether their union would object since the letter seems to indicate that it (the union) fully supports Biden's decision to deploy its members to the Southern border.
     
  17. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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    Playing the devil's advocate, one could argue that the presence of air marshals has acted as a deterrent which may explain in large part why there have been no arrests of terror suspects on US airliners since the start of program and even though it's clearly not their primary mission my guess is that flight attendants probably appreciate the presence of an air marshal in those instances when it's necessary to restrain a physically violent passenger. Although I have no actual knowledge it's also reasonable to assume that the training of air marshals has been upgraded since the 2005 incident when one shot a US citizen.
     
  18. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    I would be hard pressed to buy that argument. In the entire history of the US commercial air traffic, there was exactly one attack. The whole thing is a giant overreaction to 9/11. Merely securing the cabin door prevents such an attack from ever happening again and whenver there has been an unruly passenger, other passengers have always been the ones that subdued the unruly passenger. Not once that I recall has an air marshall been on a flight and subdued an unruly passenger.
     
  19. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    Air marshalls fall under DHS so it seems that they can be deployed anywhere that DHS has a mission. These people should be aware of that when they sign up for the job. I don't recall any other federal employees refusing to go when deployed to help with the massive number of unaccompanied kids. I would also note that the deployment is needed because the judge is requiring Biden to end Trump's Title 42 policy

    DHS Is Deploying More Employees to the Border, and Some Are Growing Tired of It - Government Executive (govexec.com)

    DHS has several times in recent years turned to its workforce to address swings in migration patterns, as well as other emergencies such as hurricane response and refugee processing. Last year, President Biden tapped the Federal Emergency Management Agency to address a record increase in migrant children at the border. FEMA, Customs and Border Protection, Federal Protective Service, Immigration and Customs Enforcement and other DHS employees deployed through the department's Volunteer Force staffed shelters, provided security and offered other support. The administration subsequently asked for volunteers across government to help an overwhelmed DHS and Health and Human Services Department in processing the children. Under President Trump in 2019, CBP reassigned thousands of customs officers from ports of entry to assist Border Patrol staff during a migration upswing.

    Those deployments are only likely to ramp up in the coming weeks. A federal judge this week ruled the Biden administration must end its enforcement of the Title 42 policy, an initiative first launched under President Trump to automatically reject and turn away most migrants arriving at the border to make asylum claims. The policy was implemented ostensibly to prevent the spread of COVID-19, though Republican lawmakers and the Biden administration have been reluctant to support its termination over fears it will create a new pull factor toward an already overwhelmed border. The judge on Wednesday granted the administration's request for a five-week delay to prepare for the expected uptick of migrant arrivals.

    Earlier this year, the Biden administration rolled out a plan for the end of Title 42 that included deploying officers, agents and other staff throughout its workforce to address and process the anticipated increased stream of immigrants. It also suggested it would ask for personnel assistance from other federal agencies. Encounters at the border have remained high despite Title 42 allowing the government to reject migrants seeking asylum—in part because the policy enabled those turned away to quickly make renewed efforts to cross the border—but the administration is expecting the news of the end of the policy will lead to a renewed interest in individuals fleeing violence, unrest and poverty seeking to enter the United States.

    Londo, of the National Air Marshals Council, said TSA has not set an end date for the deployments. His association has sent a letter to the DHS IG questioning whether the assignments are legal, suggesting they are a misappropriation of federal funds as Congress did not explicitly authorize them. An IG spokesman declined to comment on the request, though Londo said the office is reviewing whether to probe the matter further. Francine Kerner, TSA’s chief counsel, in response to the council’s contentions pointed to statute authorizing the DHS secretary to delegate any function within the department’s purview to any employee. Mayorkas took the action in recognizing “that the unprecedented volume of undocumented non-citizens apprehended and in custody along the [southwest border] requires further action to protect the life and safety of federal personnel and non-citizens,” Kerner said.
     
  20. ATLGATORFAN

    ATLGATORFAN Premium Member

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    Good points. However FAMs do not reveal themselves for drunk unruly
    Passengers etc. their mission is different
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2022