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Air Marshalls Refusing Orders

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by G8trGr8t, Dec 4, 2022.

  1. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    Federal agents have written a letter saying they will not obey Biden's orders if he orders them to the border. This article goes well beyond that detailing just how corrupt and useless the federal air marshall program is. Can't post it all but the absurdity of so much of it is maddening. Another massively wasteful program with entitled employees being protected by an out of control union

    Air Marshals Will Refuse Orders To Go To The Border, Prefer Protecting First Class Cabins - View from the Wing

    Now, as air marshals are being ordered to the border, dozens of rank and file members have indicated they will refuse the assignments. An association of air marshals known as the Air Marshal National Council recently sent a letter to DHS Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas and FAMS Director Tirrell Stevenson, warning that air marshals will refuse orders to go to the border.

    “The rank and file air marshals are going to refuse to deploy and risk termination,” David Londo, a 16-year DHS employee and president of the Air Marshal National Council, told the Washington Examiner on Tuesday. “You’re almost going to have a mutiny of a federal agency, which is unheard of.”
    ..........................................
    One actually sued for being denied his first choice of meal in first class and because a flight attendant spilled a drink on him. He approached the cockpit to report these incidents to the captain — and threatened the pilot.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
  2. OklahomaGator

    OklahomaGator Jedi Administrator Moderator VIP Member

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    Not going to get any sympathy from me for refusing to follow orders. They are ultimately employees of the US Government and should go where the government lawfully sends them.
     
    • Agree Agree x 13
  3. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

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    I can see them not wanting to do a totally different job. While they are federal law enforcement, it would be like if a person was hired as a white collar fraud investigator and then re-assigned as a prison guard. Totally different jobs. Also not exactly the most pleasant areas to have to relocate to! Is the Border Patrol just… totally unable to hire people? It’s not quite the same as the military where the chain of command to the president is absolute. It’s not “orders” they are following/disobeying, and there are possible civil service protections at play which they aren’t wrong to explore.

    That being said, with some of their crazy demands sounds like this is yet another police union gone out of control. I can understand them not liking the re-assignment, but I’m guessing these particular guys are mostly being asked to do administrative support and not exactly hardcore desert patrols. So I’m sort of neutral on this. On the one hand I’m not a fan of hijacking agencies to perform different roles (is that really necessary), but sounds like these guys are a little extra entitled. Biden admin probably assumed they’d be flexible about relocation since they are always on the road or in the air anyway (not quite like other agencies that work out of a local field office).
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2022
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  4. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer VIP Member

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    They need to do some house cleaning in Border Patrol.
    U.S. Border Patrol helps Texas with migrant trespassing arrests | The Texas Tribune.
     
  5. sierragator

    sierragator GC Hall of Fame

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    Fire them
     
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  6. oragator1

    oragator1 Premium Member

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    • Informative Informative x 3
  7. l_boy

    l_boy 5500

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    If my job were an air marshall I would also object to being redeployed to the border. Redeployed to do what? Run around in the desert and apprehend illegal aliens? No thanks.
     
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  8. gator_lawyer

    gator_lawyer VIP Member

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    I would too. That would not be the job I signed up for.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. kygator

    kygator GC Hall of Fame

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    If the administration doesn’t believe that air marshals are necessary, they should either eliminate or greatly downsize those positions. I’m not going to fault any employee, public or private, for saying they wouldn’t accept another position.
     
  10. danmanne65

    danmanne65 GC Hall of Fame

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    The whole airport security and flight security thing needs to be rethought. It has created a class of bureaucrats who are self important and I don’t know what their purpose is other than to hassle the people and make some scared flyers think that they are “safe” flying because morons make sure you don’t take a water bottle on a plane.
     
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  11. citygator

    citygator VIP Member

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    Biden’s empowered to send them to the border. Marshall’s are empowered to refuse and risk losing their job. Seems like a weird solution though. I hadn’t heard of it til this post.

    I wouldn’t fix what isn’t broken though. Planes have been pretty safe since they weren’t.
     
  12. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

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    Sounds like you are conflating TSA with air marshals? The air marshals ride the planes (and I think are generally “undercover”), but they aren’t screening you.

    Conceptually (without knowing the details of their union or how they operate), I still think air marshals are a good idea. In the last couple of years (post pandemic) there were more crazytowm incidents than ever. If anything, you’d think the air marshals would be quite busy with all those incidents.

    Like with all law enforcement, you are sometimes going to get a bad seed or in some cases the need to justify their existence (like dumb police depts who have “quotas” on the # of tickets they write). Maybe there is some of that going on.
     
  13. danmanne65

    danmanne65 GC Hall of Fame

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    I was grouping all airport and airplane security together. People need to calm down. I don’t think we need undercover law enforcement on random flights.
     
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  14. sierragator

    sierragator GC Hall of Fame

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    They have the option of getting a different job.
     
  15. OklahomaGator

    OklahomaGator Jedi Administrator Moderator VIP Member

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    I am sure there are some job descriptions, guidelines, etc., that they were given when they are hired. If being reassigned to the border falls legally under those guidelines then they should go.
     
  16. VAg8r1

    VAg8r1 GC Hall of Fame

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    It's my understanding that Federal law enforcement officers can be deployed anywhere at the discretion of the government. That being said, the Air Marshalls may have a valid argument that they are being ordered to perform a mission for which they have not been adequately trained. There is a difference between patrolling the border and providing security on a passenger airliner. I suspect whether or not that's a valid argument will be determined if and when their union formally objects to the order.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2022
  17. BLING

    BLING GC Hall of Fame

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    That isn’t 100% clear.

    Maybe there is more flexibility under the broader umbrella of “federal law enforcement” to just re-assign, but generally the President doesn’t get to just repurpose federal agencies to do… whatever. That isn’t how the laws here work, and civil service protections exist to protect against a rogue executive or corrupt SOB like Trump that would try to corrupt the government or use assignments as punitive measures.

    Trump didn’t have “absolute power” and neither does Biden. At best, it may be a bit of a grey area here that does technically give Biden the authority (or maybe he has to declare an emergency or some nonsense to do it). Assuming the authority holds up to legal scrutiny, just because he can doesn’t mean he should.
     
  18. DesertGator

    DesertGator VIP Member

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    Then you'd both be free to find other employment. I'm actually surprised that Air Marshalls are part of a civilian entity and not subject to a branch of the military.
     
  19. PerSeGator

    PerSeGator GC Hall of Fame

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    It looks like this has happened before:

    First on CNN: TSA to deploy hundreds, including air marshals, to border | CNN Politics

    My guess is there's some clause in their employment contracts that allow for this kind of temporary re-deployment.
     
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  20. tilly

    tilly Superhero Mod. Fast witted. Bulletproof posts. Moderator VIP Member

    Most companies have a vague final bullet on job descriptions that say "the list above isnt' to be viewed as all inclusive and this positions duties can change at the discretion of management."

    Most companies do this today. Now how far you can stray from the bullet points becomes pretty vague at that point.
     
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