Welcome home, fellow Gator.

The Gator Nation's oldest and most active insider community
Join today!
  1. Gator Country Black Friday special!

    Now's a great time to join or renew and get $20 off your annual VIP subscription! LIMITED QUANTITIES -- for details click here.

Oil and Gas

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by G8trGr8t, Oct 5, 2022.

  1. exiledgator

    exiledgator Gruntled

    11,101
    1,942
    3,128
    Jan 5, 2010
    Maine
    I must not be asking the question right.

    I have a barrel of oil. Can I turn the majority of that barrel into whatever petroleum product I'd like or does the makeup of the oil require me to turn 46% of it into gasoline?
     
  2. philnotfil

    philnotfil GC Hall of Fame

    17,730
    1,789
    1,718
    Apr 8, 2007
    The make up of the oil requires you to turn 46% of it into gasoline.

    Crude oil contains all of these things in it, refining is the process of extracting similar things at the same time. Just like distilling alcohol, at certain temperatures, certain substances become airborne and carefully controlling the temperature allows you to extract only the ethanol rather than the other byproducts of fermentation.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  3. exiledgator

    exiledgator Gruntled

    11,101
    1,942
    3,128
    Jan 5, 2010
    Maine
    TIL. thanks.
     
  4. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

    31,867
    12,090
    3,693
    Aug 26, 2008
    good read here on the process. did not realize that converting oil with a heavy API into distillates with alight API means refineries discharge more barrels than they input as the lighter distillates are less dense. processing heavy, sour oil is much more enrgy intensive than processing light sweet oil. most us oil production is light to light sweet in contrast to Canadian and Venezuelan oil

    Refining crude oil - inputs and outputs - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Fistbump/Thanks! Fistbump/Thanks! x 1
  5. carpeveritas

    carpeveritas GC Hall of Fame

    2,529
    3,567
    1,998
    Dec 31, 2016
    I haven't found any information that shows gasoline being refined into other petroleum products. As to your question concerning the refinement process here is what the EIA reports concerning a barrel of oil. A 42 gallon barrel of oil produces about 19 to 20 gallons of gasoline. The link to inputs and outputs breaks down the petroleum products produced from one 42 gallon barrel of crude oil with gasoline being the largest output at 20.08 gallons followed by distillate fuel oil at 12.47. Kerosene (jet fuel) is 3.53 gallons all other products are substantially less as you go down the chart.

    Oil and petroleum products explained
    Petroleum refineries convert crude oil and other liquids into many petroleum products that people use every day. Most refineries focus on producing transportation fuels. On average, U.S. refineries produce, from a 42-gallon barrel of crude oil, about 19 to 20 gallons of motor gasoline; 11 to 13 gallons of distillate fuel most of which is sold as diesel fuel; and 3 to 4 gallons of jet fuel. More than a dozen other petroleum products are also produced in refineries including liquids the petrochemical industry uses to make a variety of chemicals and plastics. The amount of individual products produced varies from month to month and year to year as refineries adjust production to meet market demand and to maximize profitability. Learn more in Refining crude oil—inputs and outputs.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  6. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

    13,638
    1,916
    1,318
    Apr 3, 2007
    The company is Louisiana Chemical Equipment Company (LCEC). Here are the tanks. These are actually 12.5'-dia. x 143' long. They are not bullet tanks, surprisingly (the ends are flat). The MAWP (max working pressure) is 50 psig, and they are insulated. Good luck with transportation on tanks that long. I would think they would hold propane, if the pressure wasn't too high. They are designed to be chilled, I believe, which keeps the pressure down. I suspect that they would not hold natural gas if the refrigeration system failed for any extended period of time. To see what else they have, click on "Equipment" and then click on "Tanks". They probably have more than a hundred tanks of various sizes at any given time.

    Two Unused 100,000 Gallon LNG Tanks for Sale - LCEC.com
     
    • Fistbump/Thanks! Fistbump/Thanks! x 1
  7. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

    13,638
    1,916
    1,318
    Apr 3, 2007
    Here are a couple of links for cracking and converting processes in refineries. Most of what they seem to be doing is trying to make more gasoline, or make additives to gasoline. Cracking converts heavier components into lighter ones. Conversion sometimes converts lighter components into heavier ones. Either one will require additional energy and capital (sometimes including catalytic reactors, etc.), so it isn't cheap.

    Cracking (chemistry) - Wikipedia

    Conversion processes

    From the second article (VGO is vacuum gas oil):
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  8. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

    13,638
    1,916
    1,318
    Apr 3, 2007
    P.S. What size barbeque are you running over there to require 100,000 gallons of propane?
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
  9. carpeveritas

    carpeveritas GC Hall of Fame

    2,529
    3,567
    1,998
    Dec 31, 2016
    It's true that cracking is part of the refinement process for gasoline and other products. You're not going to turn that gasoline into peanut butter. The distillation process (boiling) yields what is know as straight-run gasoline and straight-run diesel. Straight-run gasoline is not a finished product but it is gasoline and it is flammable. Straight-run diesel can be used for off road use but not for not for highway passenger and commercial vehicles. In any case you are not going to turn gasoline into peanut butter or any other product that comes from a barrel of crude.

    Refining Processes of Diesel vs Gasoline
    The refining processes of diesel vs gasoline begin with the separation of each from crude oil. The separation of diesel and gasoline hydrocarbons from crude oil occurs during the distillation process. Straight-run diesel and straight-run gasolines are the gasoline and diesel products that come out of the distillation column.
    .......
    The refining processes for gasoline and diesel are different because the hydrocarbon mixtures and mix ratios of gasoline and diesel are different. Additionally, the refining process is also part of the reason diesel and gasoline have different hydrocarbon compositions. Part of the refining process is breaking up large, long-chain hydrocarbons to make new smaller hydrocarbons.

    Different hydrocarbons have different combustion and compression resistance properties. Combustion and compression resistance properties determine for which type of engine a fuel is most appropriate. There are two kinds of combustion engines.
     
  10. exiledgator

    exiledgator Gruntled

    11,101
    1,942
    3,128
    Jan 5, 2010
    Maine
    He's cutting them up to make the world's biggest offset smoker.
     
  11. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

    13,638
    1,916
    1,318
    Apr 3, 2007
    I don't believe I ever claimed that refineries could turn gasoline into peanut butter. Just because you can't turn gasoline into peanut butter, does not mean that you can't turn gasoline (or its components) into something else. Obviously, the article I quoted had multiple conversion processes that convert parts of the oil stream into other (non-peanut butter) chemicals. I'm not a petroleum engineer, but I do know a chemical reaction when I see one.
     
  12. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

    17,587
    2,833
    1,618
    Apr 3, 2007
    Interesting about global demand. Obviously speculative and may prove to be untrue. But interesting nonetheless. Thread.

     
  13. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

    13,638
    1,916
    1,318
    Apr 3, 2007
    A minor problem with fracking for oil: earthquakes. West Texas (where the Permian Basin is located) just experienced its biggest earthquake in history, at 5.3 on the Richter scale. The previous record was 5.0 in 2020.

    So while technology may solve one problem (lack of oil to consume), it can create other problems (earthquakes, poisoned groundwater, etc.). We really need to do what we can to reduce oil usage to a minimum (increase gas tax, encourage hybrids, EV's, discourage sports cars and monster trucks and SUV's, etc.).

    West Texas Was Just Rocked By the Biggest Earthquake It Has Ever Seen

     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2022
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. studegator

    studegator GC Legend

    747
    239
    1,918
    Feb 24, 2008
  15. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

    31,867
    12,090
    3,693
    Aug 26, 2008
    it isn't the fracking, it is the over pressurization of the disposal wells. They had similar problems in Oklahoma and then the regulators started doing their job and making sure that the disposal well injection pressure limits weren't being exceeded.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  16. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

    31,867
    12,090
    3,693
    Aug 26, 2008
    I wish people would realize that what Biden or any other POTUS does has very little effect on oil and gas prices in the short term. It is all about supply and demand. If we want to make a real difference, get nat gas into all those NE homes that currently use fuel oil. Hopefully this expected reprieve allows those residents to fill their tanks

    Oil Prices Plunge As Economic Woes Intensify—Here’s Why That Means Gas Prices Could Soon Fall Below $3 Per Gallon (forbes.com)

    The price of West Texas Intermediate slipped more than 5% Monday to less than $75.50 per barrel—its lowest level since early January—while international benchmark Brent crude also tumbled 5% to roughly $82.50 per barrel.

    In a morning note, Oanda analyst Ed Moya attributed the decline to a worsening Covid outbreak in China, where a deputy director of the Beijing Center for Disease Control and Prevention on Monday warned the city was facing its “most complex and severe prevention and control situation” of the pandemic, after China over the weekend reported its first Covid deaths since May.

    Following the decline, Patrick De Haan, head of petroleum analysis at GasBuddy, said if oil markets hold at current levels, prices at the pump should fall “nearly coast-to-coast into the heavily traveled Thanksgiving holiday”—potentially even pushing the national average to less than $3 by around Christmas.

    With oil prices tumbling more than 18% this month, the nation’s average gas price has fallen in tandem, shedding nearly 12 cents from a week ago to $3.64 per gallon, GasBuddy reported Monday.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  17. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

    31,867
    12,090
    3,693
    Aug 26, 2008
    For those railing against Biden and claiming he is shutting down oil, you won't like this story. They jsut approved a large oil export terminal in Texas. Increasing oil export capacity encourages development of the domestic oil industry

    Biden administration quietly approves huge Texas oil export project (msn.com)

    The Biden administration has approved plans to build the nation’s largest oil export terminal off the Gulf Coast of Texas, which would add 2 million barrels per day to the U.S. oil export capacity.

    The approval by the Department of Transportation’s Maritime Administration was filed in the federal register on Monday without any public announcement, a day after the United Nations’ annual climate conference wrapped up in Sharm el-Sheik, Egypt.

    The administration’s move marked a major step forward for the export sector, which has grown rapidly since the U.S. began to allow crude sales abroad in 2015, the same year that the U.S. helped broker the Paris climate accord that called for dramatic reductions in global fossil fuel emissions.

    The offshore oil export terminal, the first to be approved of four proposed along Texas’ Gulf Coast, will enable continued growth in U.S. shale oil production and in global consumption, dealing a substantial setback to the White House’s goals for drastic cuts in carbon emissions by year 2030.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
  18. g8trjax

    g8trjax GC Hall of Fame

    5,195
    450
    293
    Jun 1, 2007
  19. l_boy

    l_boy 5500

    12,933
    1,730
    3,268
    Jan 6, 2009
    So what is your take as to why their numbers are wrong?

    Are you saying that users of carbon based fuel should bear none of the external costs of carbon fuels, such as air pollution, health care costs, sea level rise/flooding, fires, etc? Only the victims of those side effects should suffer the consequences?
     
  20. Tjgators

    Tjgators Premium Member

    5,050
    627
    358
    Apr 3, 2007