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War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. exiledgator

    exiledgator Gruntled

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    To be fair, I don't think Republicans want horror movie torturing going on. Many simply want anything that isn't what Joe Biden wants. Unfortunately, for those many - they're unable to wrap their minds around the fact that the opposing political party could be in support of anything good.

    I'd love to see a hawkish Russian posture arise from the Republican party. Call Joe out for not doing enough, rather than being against his tepid response. Win / win. They get to be against Joe AND do the right thing. But alas...
     
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  2. homer

    homer GC Hall of Fame

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    Dumb posts are dumb.
     
  3. OklahomaGator

    OklahomaGator Jedi Administrator Moderator VIP Member

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    Republicans don't want torture chambers, human mutilation, or unnecessary suffering, that is ridiculous.
     
  4. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    Are you serious?
     
  5. sierragator

    sierragator GC Hall of Fame

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    A difference between advocating for that and enabling it by wanting to stop supporting Ukraine so Pootie pie can do whatever he wants. I'm sure Pootie pie appreciates the support from the likes of MTG.
     
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  6. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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  7. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    You know I’m in violent agreement with you about MTG. But that [distinguished representative from Georgia] does not speak for me. I work with many people who are or were in the military, most of whom indicate from their words that they vote Republican. The overwhelming consensus is that we are not doing enough for Ukraine. If you put out a call for volunteers to actually fight in Ukraine, the U.S. military response would be overwhelming. We would have to deny most of the requests in order to maintain our other obligations.
     
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  8. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    More evidence that Russia is running out of missiles: they took nuclear warheads out of cruise missiles and put a dummy warhead in it to overwhelm Ukraine's missile defenses; and one of Russia's missiles that was shot down had an indication that it was made in the 3rd quarter of 2022.

    Russia fired cruise missile with dummy nuclear warhead, indicating shortage of weapons

     
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  9. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    they are buying a bunch from Iran. Really hoping that they get destroyed somehow enroute

    Iran’s Burgeoning Arms Exports To Russia Could Be A Sign Of Desperation (forbes.com)

    According to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, Russia has ordered as many as 2,400 Shahed loitering munitions (so-called suicide or kamikaze drones) from Iran. While an enormous number, the drones are incredibly cheap, with one estimate claiming they cost a mere $20,000 each. If Russia is buying them for that price, then simple math suggests that the acquisition would cost Moscow as little as $48 million, although the price is probably higher since the deal likely includes support and other services.



    Whatever Moscow is paying for this large number of loitering munitions is most likely a relatively minor figure compared to most arms sales. In 2019, for example, Ukraine ordered a mere six Turkish Bayraktar TB2 drones as part of a $69 million contract.


    Russia also wants Iran's Fateh-110 and Zolfaghar short-range ballistic missiles (SRBMs) with ranges between 186 and 435 miles, respectively. A large order of such missiles could give Russia some substitution for its arsenal of ballistic and cruise missiles, which has reportedly dwindled, enabling it to sustain its bombardment of Ukrainian cities.
    While Iranian weaponry is relatively cheap, making large purchases economical for the buyer (which is, incidentally, a point Russia has touted about its hardware in the past), Moscow appears to have turned to Tehran primarily out of desperation. Its purchase of large quantities of Iranian weaponry, and reportedly North Korean artillery, seemingly indicates Moscow is presently facing a situation not wholly unlike the one Iran faced in the 1980s when it was a pariah state fighting a desperate and depleting war against Saddam Hussein's Iraq.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2022
  10. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    well the official report is out. traces of explosive material found on pipeline confirming the obvious, ie it was intentionally blown up. still not understanding why they would rather blow it up instead of just shutting it down.

    Nord Stream pipeline carrying Russian gas was blown up in an intentional 'gross sabotage,' Sweden says (msn.com)

    The Nord Stream pipelines carrying vital gas from Russia to Europe were blown up in an act of "gross sabotage," a Swedish investigation concluded on Friday.

    Sweden's Public Prosecutor's Office announced that that its investigators found "traces of explosives" on several "foreign objects" found at the site under the Baltic Sea, which it considers a crime scene.

    The Swedish officials said it was too early to accuse any individuals of a crime. Other agencies and Western officials have been less hesitant, blaming Russia and President Vladimir Putin.
    ...............................
    Russian warships and submarines were also spotted in the area at the time.
     
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  11. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    I see almost no value in Russia blowing its own pipeline unless it’s a false flag, but they have not accused anyone else of doing yet. I think that would have followed by now.
     
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  12. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    It's the FSB vs Wagner group and the Chechens. this is scary stuff

    Leaked FSB Letters Reveal Civil War Among Putin's Allies (msn.com)

    Leaked emails from a whistleblower at Russia's Federal Security Service (FSB), shared with Newsweek, reveal a civil war among President Vladimir Putin's closest allies as his invasion of Ukraine continues to falter.

    "Believe me—that is far more terrifying. I assert, and this is by no means the solitary private opinion of one simple (FSB) employee: we have f***ed up the country. We (FSB) screwed up the country not on February 24, when this whole affair began, but much earlier, when February 24 became possible in principle."

    "Chaos, civil war, collapse—yes, it's all ahead of us. It is inevitable," the FSB agent said. "Too many in Russia have crossed the point of no return. They plan to be little czars in the areas they manage to capture. At least, that's the way they are thinking."

    The whistleblower suggested that it won't be easy for the Kremlin to suppress Prigozhin should he eventually pose a threat to Putin's rule.

    "And when the especially 'smart' leaders in the FSB engage in whitewashing Prigozhin as non-systemic, and say that we have a structure that can neutralize him if it became necessary – that's nonsense."
     
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  13. WarDamnGator

    WarDamnGator GC Hall of Fame

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    Did you not see Gaetz and MTG calling for an end to US support of Ukraine? They are still butthurt that Trump didn't get that make believe dirt on Hunter...
     
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  14. chemgator

    chemgator GC Hall of Fame

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    I could see some value in Russia using it internally to try to whip Russians into a frenzy to avenge it, not realizing that so many Russians have access to external news.

    But I really think that Putin did it to burn the bridge behind him on his way to Kiev. There is no easy way for Russia to bump off Putin and get out of the Ukraine War with the ability to quickly re-start oil flow to Europe. It's similar to Caesar burning the bridge after he crossed over the Rubicon on his way to Rome--there is no turning back once you burn the bridge behind you.
     
  15. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    That could be. If so, it seems like Putin cut off his nose just to spite his face. I see no real strategic value in the Russians destroying their own pipeline and then just keeping quiet about it.

    Have to be “that guy” and correct you on your historical metaphors, though. Caesar burned no bridges (at least literally) in crossing the Rubicon; there was probably no bridge to burn at that point in history since the Rubicon was easily fordable. Crossing the Rubicon is a great example of “no turning back” but the point is psychological instead of physical. In crossing the Rubicon with his army, Caesar had violated a law so sacred to Rome that the only way to come back from it was military victory over his political enemies. You might be mixing metaphors with Cortes, who did indeed burn his ships upon reaching modern-day Veracruz to let his soldiers know there was no turning back.
     
  16. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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  17. studegator

    studegator GC Legend

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  18. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

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    I hope Ukraine is judicious in “hunting” collaborators. Going after the people who actively assisted the invaders with their occupation is one thing. Going after people who just did the bare minimum they needed to survive and keep their families alive is quite another.
     
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  19. homer

    homer GC Hall of Fame

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    Yep.

    A handful of idiots in a group saying and doing things isn’t a reason for generalizing.


    Don’t know where you live or who you know but the pubs I know want Biden and the US to do even more for Ukraine.
     
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  20. studegator

    studegator GC Legend

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