Welcome home, fellow Gator.

The Gator Nation's oldest and most active insider community
Join today!

War in Ukraine

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PITBOSS, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

    31,665
    12,064
    3,693
    Aug 26, 2008
    Russian oil exports have dropped from around 8 million bpd to under 7.5m bpd. IEA estimates another 1.5M - 2M bpd decrease with the new sanctions (EU imports of 1.1M bpd will be stopped). Same with the nat gas. They are in a death spiral that it will take decades for their economy to recover from since they are so dependent on energy exports to fuel their economy.

    China, Turkey, and India have been stocking up on discounted Russian crude but their storage capacities are maxing out and their consumption will not sustain the increased level of imports. The new sanctions will hit the insurance on the tankers which is the critical sanction that brought Iran to the bargaining table.

    Russian Oil Exports Hold Up Despite Impending EU Ban - WSJ

    Over 1 million barrels of Russian oil exports a day are set to be obstructed by Western sanctions that are expected to come into force within weeks, the International Energy Agency said Tuesday, and Moscow will struggle to redirect shipments elsewhere threatening to further tighten global energy markets.
    ..................

    Russia’s total oil exports rose by 165,000 barrels a day in October to 7.7 million barrels a day. Russian exports to the EU were 1.5 million barrels a day, of which 1.1 million barrels a day will be halted when the bloc’s ban comes into effect early next month, the IEA said. It was unclear how much of those supplies Russia would be able to redirect to customers elsewhere in the world, the IEA said. India, China and Turkey have snapped up discounted Russian crude shipments but buying from those nations has stabilized in recent months while the volume would be too large for the remaining nations to absorb, the agency said.
    ..................
    On Dec. 5, EU states will ban imports of Russian crude and prohibit their companies from financing or insuring Russian oil shipments. On the same day, a price cap plan led by the Group of Seven comes into force. The plan will allow Western companies to facilitate Russian oil trading only if the oil is sold below a certain level.

    The price cap mechanism is an attempt to keep Russia’s global oil supplies flowing while undermining Moscow’s revenue. While no level has yet been set, U.S. officials have suggested a cap in the $60 a barrel range would give Russia an incentive to keep producing. Russia has said it won’t trade with any nations participating in the price cap.
     
    • Fistbump/Thanks! Fistbump/Thanks! x 1
  2. exiledgator

    exiledgator Gruntled

    11,080
    1,935
    3,128
    Jan 5, 2010
    Maine
    Russian missiles blowing stuff up in.....


    Poland.

    EDIT: at least two dead
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
  3. BigCypressGator1981

    BigCypressGator1981 GC Hall of Fame

    6,707
    1,374
    3,103
    Oct 11, 2011
    [​IMG]
     
  4. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

    8,957
    2,108
    1,483
    May 31, 2007
    Fresno, CA
    That can’t be true …

    Edit: But apparently it is. Extremely dumb move by Russia not to make sure its munitions fall well short of NATO countries. They will have earned whatever this move buys them.

    At least two dead after Russian missiles land in NATO state Poland
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2022
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. sierragator

    sierragator GC Hall of Fame

    15,362
    13,232
    1,853
    Apr 8, 2007
    It's showing up in news feeds. Was probably a matter of time before Russian weapons landed on the NATO side of the line. IF this escalates, nice knowing everyone.
     
  6. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

    31,665
    12,064
    3,693
    Aug 26, 2008
    agreed. Russia better shut up and absorb whatever impacts are coming their way
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

    8,957
    2,108
    1,483
    May 31, 2007
    Fresno, CA
    First, while it’s a touching sentiment, it’s never nice knowing everyone. I’m sure you can think of a few people off the top of your head that would improve the world by leaving it. Just consider it a silver lining if you must. ;)

    Second, and seriously, there is an opportunity here that the President should not waste. A proportional response on behalf of NATO is not only warranted but necessary as a grave warning to Russia about not escalating further and indeed tapering off this thing. First seek Polish approval to reciprocate on their behalf, then Ukrainian approval to target a Russian site on Ukrainian territory, then advise Russia that a proportional response is coming at a time and place of our choosing (regardless of whatever they threaten to do next). When they see we can hit them wherever and whenever we want, at negligible risk to our own forces, that will give them serious pause about next moves.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. PITBOSS

    PITBOSS GC Hall of Fame

    7,787
    814
    558
    Apr 13, 2007
    Wow. I checked a key metric on overall expected global stability and health - the US stock market. Had a sharp drop at I believe the time the bombing was announced. but rebounding which is encouraging.


    upload_2022-11-15_14-36-21.png
     
  9. ValdostaGatorFan

    ValdostaGatorFan GC Hall of Fame

    2,755
    593
    1,998
    Aug 21, 2007
    TitleTown, USA
    [​IMG]
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
  10. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

    8,957
    2,108
    1,483
    May 31, 2007
    Fresno, CA
    Is that the Kremlin behind Homer?
     
    • Funny Funny x 5
  11. slayerxing

    slayerxing GC Hall of Fame

    4,969
    848
    2,078
    Aug 14, 2007
    • Like Like x 1
  12. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

    8,957
    2,108
    1,483
    May 31, 2007
    Fresno, CA
    I hope so, but I would not bet that way. Putin does not yet have enough domestic opposition to take his foot off the gas.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. exiledgator

    exiledgator Gruntled

    11,080
    1,935
    3,128
    Jan 5, 2010
    Maine
    Agree on domestic opposition, but what's left in the tank? He can mash the pedal, but if there's no revving....

    If he goes full levee en masse - he'll have some domestic opposition then.

    What would it take under current leadership and tactics to turn the tide anyway? Not sure a million more "troops" would move the dial.

    All I see is more lobbing of missiles (terrorism) into Ukrainian cities to break the will of the people, but this has historically proven to be ineffective. Particularly against such a united and strong populace.

    He needs the West to capitulate. That's his only hope.

    I wonder what Western leadership would do if faced with the choice of invoking Article V or giving up Donbas and Crimea? Hmmm.
     
  14. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

    31,665
    12,064
    3,693
    Aug 26, 2008
    they need to crush the remaining Wagner units around Bakhmut. I could be wrong but it appears that Wagner has went all in at that front and if the yooks can crush them there, the rest should fall easier
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. magnetofsnatch

    magnetofsnatch Rudy Ray Moore’s Idol Premium Member

    1,048
    279
    1,783
    Apr 10, 2020
    North Florida
    White House just requested 37B more for Ukraine. Asinine. Just a blank check with little to no oversight on how it’s spent.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

    8,957
    2,108
    1,483
    May 31, 2007
    Fresno, CA
    Would more direct oversight change your mind about the wisdom of the spending?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  17. magnetofsnatch

    magnetofsnatch Rudy Ray Moore’s Idol Premium Member

    1,048
    279
    1,783
    Apr 10, 2020
    North Florida
    Nope
     
  18. uftaipan

    uftaipan GC Hall of Fame

    8,957
    2,108
    1,483
    May 31, 2007
    Fresno, CA
    Kind of what I thought. That being the case, rather daft to argue lack of oversight. Make your real argument.
     
    • Fistbump/Thanks! Fistbump/Thanks! x 2
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 2
    • Wish I would have said that Wish I would have said that x 1
  19. magnetofsnatch

    magnetofsnatch Rudy Ray Moore’s Idol Premium Member

    1,048
    279
    1,783
    Apr 10, 2020
    North Florida
    Daft is a word that is underused. Bravo. My real argument isn’t actually an argument. Just a statement. They’ve got enough; use the money domestically.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. tampagtr

    tampagtr VIP Member

    17,575
    2,819
    1,618
    Apr 3, 2007
    Zelensky outlines a “peace plan”. Smart international politics. Mainly for show

     
    • Agree Agree x 1